max.burgess

Charles E

curmudgeon
Let's start a new thread, so as not to go off-topic on Mr. Murdica's thread.

Charles E
Have you ever messed with a 300 ultra mag for 1000 yard. I'm trying to work up a load , I've using slower powders than 4831 with out much luck, one of my problems may be I've done my testing at 100 yards.
Thanks Max

Max, the .300 RUM is basically the .404 Jeffrey case necked down to .30 and blown out a bit. I've never shot one. But back in the mid-1990s, Dave Tooley made up a bunch of chamberings on the .404 Jeffrey case. Left full length, and necked down to .30 caliber, it would be the same as your RUM. No one did that, for a .30, they always shortened it. Even in those days, the case shortened to 2.7 inches (MHV) was considered max for a .30. I shot the .30 SVH, same thing, but a 2.50 length case. Full-length was for .338s and larger.

Those who did use the MHV (2.7) used heavy bullets. Don't remember when the 240-grain Sierras came along, but that would be about right. And now, the newer Berger Hybrids -- the heavy ones.

I've also never regularly used powder slower than Rel-25. I have used 25 in an even smaller .30, an 8x68 necked down to .30. I could get 100% loading density with Rel-25 and 210 BIBs. Problem was, 4831 was more accurate, even though the loading density is far less.

I continue to use Rel-25 in a .338 on the full length .404 case, necked down, with the 300-grain Bergers. Going to make a smaller .338, so I can use 4831.

So, I can't be much help. H1000 has always teased -- always shot small but given mystery flyers. I don't know about the other extremely slow powders, Retumbo, VV N170, etc.

I do use 100 yards for all my testing. The only thing I do is if there is a bullet hole's worth of vertical, I make a mental note to see how the 1,000 yard groups perform. Usually, the groups do not have any more vertical than you would expect.

So, sort you bullets however you like, be careful with the charge weight, test jump versus jam, all the usual things. Try the heavier bullets first. Try different primers. I use the very mild "Wolf" (Russian) LR primers in my .30 SOB (close to a .308 Norma Magnum). But I've had barrels that preferred the Fed 215 with everything else the same. Go figure.

BYW, with mild primers, at the first sigh of a hangfire, stop. Wait a full minute before even thinking about opening the bolt. Clear the area behind you. Don't let your thumb get in the way. If the rifle fires as you open the bolt, it will fly back with tremendous force. Never happened to me, but I do know someone who lost a finger, piece of their thumb, and got a hole in their shoulder.

Good luck.
 
Charles E
Thanks a lot. I've seen in the loading manuals a lot of the time that 4831 or 4350 are the most accurate powders even in large cases.
Max
 
FYI,

I shot a factory Sendero for 2 or 3 years in the IK stock class at Pella.

I settled on 190 SMK's and Retumbo at just under 3300.

I saw no reason to try any other powder. Set the small group record at the time...4" something....
 
FYI,

I shot a factory Sendero for 2 or 3 years in the IK stock class at Pella.

I settled on 190 SMK's and Retumbo at just under 3300.

I saw no reason to try any other powder. Set the small group record at the time...4" something....
Interesting. How was the 6 or 10 match aggregate?
 
Max,

I see the same thing in loading manuals too. Well, at least Sierra, which is the only sort of current one I own. I always figured they hadn't updated the powders they tried. Of course, the .300RUM is new, so one would hope they've tried the newer powders. And as Alf's experience kind of points out, loading manuals have only initial use. Word gets around amongst competitors.

You don't say what kind of shooting you're working a load up for. Is it BR, or something else? If it's BR, maybe could offer some more advice, based on one point of view.
 
Charles E
Thanks for responding. I'm trying to work up a load to shoot long range 600, 800, 1000. I've got some Berger 210 VLD I'm not sure witch powder to try first.
Thanks for any help Max
 
Max, the reason I was asking hasn't anything to do with the distance per se, but the goal. For example, if you're always shooting a known distance, drop doesn't matter. If you don't know the distance, it is more important wind drift. And if score counts as much as group, you can make certain choices that wouldn't be as effective if you're only shooting for group size.
 
Charles E
Sarrie it took so long to get back. I've heard the 180gr stuff I'd rather go as heavy as I can.The 210
VLD is about as big as I can go with a factory barrel. I don't know if you would call it Bench Rest but all of my shooting will be done from a bench at known distance. Long range ranges are hard to find around hear. There is one range around hear I've never heard of any matches there , Ill just be messing around. Do you have trouble with fliers with RL 25 ? Thanks Max
 
The 210 VLD is about as big as I can go with a factory barrel.

??? I'd assume a factory barrel is a 1:10 twist. With that large case, you can use a 240 Sierra or the new heavy Bergers. I use to shoot 240s with a 1:10 using the .30 SHV, essentially the same case you use except shortened to 2.5 inches.

The "fliers" question is interesting. What I find with Rel-25 is that when well tuned, there will be a wad of shots, or maybe a couple of wads, then a few outside. This with a 10-shot group, 5 shot groups are essentially the same, but the pattern is less distinct.

Now I know several people that take this wad of shots as evidence the rifle is trying to shoot, and the outliers either conditions, or evidence the rifle isn't quite in tune. And they may be right. Rel-25 is the powder for a lot of .300 Ackley shooters, and very small groups have been shot using it. It may be particular lots are better, or they have the rifles in perfect tune, or something else.

What I find is a little different. We're still talking about respectable groups here. For me, 6 to 8 inches, 10 shots, at 1000 yards. Problem for me is, over time -- 10, 12 matches, there are always those little filers.

Again for me, when I move to H-4831, I don't get the wad of shots, but I don't get the outliers, either. And this covers several barrels, and a couple chamberings, though truth to tell, there isn't that much difference in the chamberings. And by in large, the groups with 4831 are smaller. 4.5 to 6.5 inches.

So no real answers for you.
 
Charles E.
Thanks for the info Ill try some of the heavy bullets. I thought 4831 was to fast for that big a case but the manuals so, the velocities are close but the load density is a little lower than I like.
Thanks a lot Max
 
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