Lt30

J

Jim Pag

Guest
It's been almost a year now since LT30 was released and I was just wondering from any of you guys out there who have used it what you've thought of it? I'm not talking about using it in your 6PPC, I'm talking about using it in your 30 BR. There was a lot of talk out there that this powder was going to be the best thing since sliced bread, but I don't see it. I shoot short range IBS score matches and I can honestly say that I've seen less than a handful of guy's who use it on a regular basis on the equipment list, and they haven't really set the world on fire using it. I got caught up with the hype and bought about 200lbs of the stuff. I've only tested it in low 50's temp. I was shooting next to Allie Euber in VT one day and he asked me if I fooled around with LT30 yet. I told him I shot it one day when it was about 52 degrees and it didn't do anything that N130 or H4198 wouldn't do with less powder to boot. He said that I needed to shoot it in 80 degree weather. Well where I live, 80 degrees usually happens in July and August. Any comment would sure be appreciated. Hope everyone out there has a Happy and safe New Years.
 
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Yes, I tried it. I bought 2 lbs of it from Bruno's. I worked with it last summer in my 30BR with the Bart's 112.

It never shot as well as my 4198. It acted a little too slow in burn rate. And despite it's finer grain structure, it did not throw charges any more accurate out of the Bruno Powder Measure than 4198.

In short, I decided to stick with my 4198, which is really hard to beat in a 1-18 twist 30BR.

Off and on, when a Company brings out something new, a lot of claims will be made about how it is so much better than previous offerings, when you thing......"good lord, how much better could it be"?
 
I shot LT-30 all of last year it worked very well for me in 30BR.

I waited for warm weather {above 70*} to work up a load see picture of final results. like Jackie say's barrel twist may have different results I'm playing with 1-16.5 twist barrel so far it looks to be ok.

LT-30 measured better than the H4198 for me In my Harrells BR measure 62-1/2 clicks drops 34.5 gr LT-30.

The test target is 3 shot's all BIB Bullets this barrel likes 112gr 7-og better than the 118 10-og I'm gonna play more with the 118 10-og bullets I think they will shoot better with the right combination.

the top two groups on the right were my son! I accused him of poor bench manners with his 30BR so I let him shoot my gun. {his gun now has a different barrel on it}......

30BR.jpg.jpg

Russ
 
I tried a "real life" test. I worked up a load with BIB 112-7, both LT-30 and H4198. 35.7 gr of LT-30. 34.6 gr of H4198. I kept all other components the same. At a NBRSA registered match; 100 and 200 yd, Group on Sat and Score on Sunday, I alternated matches. LT-30 one match - H4198 the next, etc. Here is a quick summary of the results of the combined yardages:

Group: Temp 50-53
LT-30 = .293
H4198 = .319

Score: Temp 50-63
Lt-30 = 49.3 & 1.9X
H4198 = 49.4 & 1.4X

Excluding Variables:
1. I will not do a test like that again. My brain was focusing more on which powder I was shooting and not messing up the loaded rounds, etc than watching the flags. Basically, my brain got tired.
2. Of course the wind did not cooperate and stay consistent from one match to another.
3. I'm not very competitive during group matches - would rather talk, BS, and make fun of Crunk. ;)

Based on my practice results
1. Grain for grain LT-30 is slower. However, because the grain size is smaller I can fit more in a case which allows me to shoot the bullet faster.
2. LT seemed a little temp finicky. Not bad - but just not as tight as 4198. Could have been me. I will work/play with it more this spring and summer

My dirt clod conclusion:
1. Doesn't matter. If you work up a good load for LT-30 and work up a good load for H4198 the winner will be which ever one your brain is working better while you are shooting.
2. I'm going to go with H4198 until I prove to myself that LT-30 can handle the temp swings that I shoot in here in the Midwest.

Hope some of this helps
Stanley
 
Apollo said:
I tried a "real life" test. I worked up a load with BIB 112-7, both LT-30 and H4198. 35.7 gr of LT-30. 34.6 gr of H4198. I kept all other components the same. At a NBRSA registered match; 100 and 200 yd, Group on Sat and Score on Sunday, I alternated matches. LT-30 one match - H4198 the next, etc. Here is a quick summary of the results of the combined yardages:

Group: Temp 50-53
LT-30 = .293
H4198 = .319

Score: Temp 50-63
Lt-30 = 49.3 & 1.9X
H4198 = 49.4 & 1.4X

Excluding Variables:
1. I will not do a test like that again. My brain was focusing more on which powder I was shooting and not messing up the loaded rounds, etc than watching the flags. Basically, my brain got tired.
2. Of course the wind did not cooperate and stay consistent from one match to another.
3. I'm not very competitive during group matches - would rather talk, BS, and make fun of Crunk. ;)

Based on my practice results
1. Grain for grain LT-30 is slower. However, because the grain size is smaller I can fit more in a case which allows me to shoot the bullet faster.
2. LT seemed a little temp finicky. Not bad - but just not as tight as 4198. Could have been me. I will work/play with it more this spring and summer

My dirt clod conclusion:
1. Doesn't matter. If you work up a good load for LT-30 and work up a good load for H4198 the winner will be which ever one your brain is working better while you are shooting.
2. I'm going to go with H4198 until I prove to myself that LT-30 can handle the temp swings that I shoot in here in the Midwest.

Hope some of this helps
Stanley
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Thanks Jason, Russ & Jackie. I thought that it might be a little humidity sensitive, I know LT32 is. I used N130 all of last year, did fair most of the year and that powder is the same way a little temp sensitive. Had to go up a half grain from 35.5 to 36 back in September, changed bullets and won the first match in Augusta, ME with the new combo. The times I did bad, well it was my own fault and I know it. I keep making stupid rookie mistakes and last year was my 3rd season so I'm not considered a rookie anymore. I ask myself after I screw up, why the hell did u do that, you know better. I screwed my 1st new barrel on the rifle that I've been using and I think I'm going to switch over to H4198. The weather up here in New England is not constant, it's always changing, and I just feel that up here, H4198 is the way to go.
 
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Jason

That's a lot to keep track of at a match! I preload at home for Me & Brett four rifles for us with two different powders in a weekend is way too much thinking for me.

I'm gonna assume your loads for your 30BR {35.7 of LT-30 and 34.6 H4198} What was the velocity?

My 30BR with 34.5 grains has got to be a little slow but it shoots great.

Russ
 
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Lee Martin said:
I haven't found that to be the case with LT-32...and I've shot it from high 20's to mid 90's on temp. What I have found though is it's sensitive to humidity. When the air gets above say 70% I'm going up 0.3.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
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Your right Lee about 32 being humidity and not temp sensitive. My friend use to use it in his PPC but he kept complaining about it being sensitive to humidity so he switched to 8208XBR.
 
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How did he like 8208 XBR? I have two jugs but haven't tried it yet. LT-32 has done so well for me. Supposedly XBR's burn rate slowed somewhat from the first batch (which was reported to shoot great in the PPC).

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
6 PPC and LT-30

I've found LT-30 to be very good in 6PPC but it can be very hot real quick I'm going to experiment this year with neck tension and see if that helps
Wes
 
Hi Russ. Hope your winter is going well.
Yes, it was a lot to keep track of - too much for my bird sized brain. I'm glad I did it because now I can say that I don't want to do that again.

Looking at my notes:
Disclaimer = I think my Chrono is fast - so even though these numbers might not be 100% accurate you can still see the relation.

LT-30 35.7 3 shots, 3214, 3188, 3170 = 3190
H4198 34.6 3 shots, 3207, 3198, 3195 = 3200.

Also- while I was looking for this data, I looked at some of my test groups and remembered another (probably the main) reason I am sticking with 4198 for now. At 35.7 it shot really good. At 35.6 and 35.8 is shot less than average. I need waaaaaay more forgiveness than that. H4198 has always followed more of the inverted bell curve that I am looking for. "No brainer tuning" as Al Nyhus has said.

Again, I am not knocking LT-30 - I just need to do more work (charges, play with neck tension, temp, etc) to learn it. Once I get a good load with LT-30, the limiting factor in my scores will not be the type of powder but how well I can focus on the day. A question that I have to answer myself is; do I really want to do that much work just to get the same results that I am already getting with 4198?

Late Dudes :cool:
 
Apollo said:
Hi Russ. Hope your winter is going well.
Yes, it was a lot to keep track of - too much for my bird sized brain. I'm glad I did it because now I can say that I don't want to do that again.

Looking at my notes:
Disclaimer = I think my Chrono is fast - so even though these numbers might not be 100% accurate you can still see the relation.

LT-30 35.7 3 shots, 3214, 3188, 3170 = 3190
H4198 34.6 3 shots, 3207, 3198, 3195 = 3200.

Also- while I was looking for this data, I looked at some of my test groups and remembered another (probably the main) reason I am sticking with 4198 for now. At 35.7 it shot really good. At 35.6 and 35.8 is shot less than average. I need waaaaaay more forgiveness than that. H4198 has always followed more of the inverted bell curve that I am looking for. "No brainer tuning" as Al Nyhus has said.

Again, I am not knocking LT-30 - I just need to do more work (charges, play with neck tension, temp, etc) to learn it. Once I get a good load with LT-30, the limiting factor in my scores will not be the type of powder but how well I can focus on the day. A question that I have to answer myself is; do I really want to do that much work just to get the same results that I am already getting with 4198?

Late Dudes :cool:
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Jason. These were my numbers with LT30 the only time I tried it. 36.0 grains. 3030, 3055, 3051. 35.7 grs 3029, 3034, 3039. Lot #37 12-18-14. 52.5 degrees 36% humidity. 116 Eubers Oehler 35P chronograph 10 feet from muzzle. H4198 34.7grains 3041, 3043, 3038. 34.4 3024,3026,3013. both 3 shot groups same day 84.4 degrees, 51% humidity. Same 116 Eubers. Barrel is a 22.5" 17TW Lilja 3 groove. Your numbers are a lot faster than mine for sure. You are probably right, your chrono is fast.
 
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Jason, Jim

Thank you gentlemen! I gave my chrono away it was a cheapo! varied to much {200-400 fps} for reliable information.I need to get a new one before I run out of this lot of LT-30.

My 30BR with 34.5gr LT-30 BIB 112gr 21.5" Bartlien 16.5 twist should be a tad slow

Don't quote me but I think Mr Robinett said a little above 3000fps or a little below is kind of a sweet spot for the 30BR. I'm on the low side of 3000fps.

So far for me for what it's worth LT-30 get's my vote!

Looking forward to shooting with you again this summer Jason I'll see you at Webster city for sure!

Russ
 
I'll have to break open my 8208. LT-32 hasn't given me any reason to switch but I like trying new angles. It does seem indifferent to temperature when the conditions are right. My two best nodes are 27.7 and 28.3 under Bart's 68 gr Ultra. From 20 degrees to 90 degrees it flat shoots in relatively dry air. Once the moisture creeps in those loads open quick.

We had a lot of rain the two days prior to Christmas and unseasonably warm temps. It gave me a chance to really work with the stuff in 90%+ humidity. I can't say I have a complete handle on LT-32 but here's what I found. Neither 27.7 or 28.3 would print well. In dry air they've agg'd low 2's with a lot of teen groups. At 90% I struggled to stay in the 2's. So I went up one click on the Culver or 0.3 grs. Fortunately the gun came back in-tune at 28.0 and returned to high-teens, low 2's (haven't tested 28.6 yet). But again, I haven't shot enough in wet air to say it'll hold indefinitely. If it doesn't I may look for a wet weather powder, perhaps 8208 or 133. Hate to shoot two but if LT isn't consistent over many sessions I'll go that route.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
Z-pooch

Zdog said:
The best load with a 68 grain BART'S Ultra was 30.1 grains with a 0.003-0.005" jam. Velocity from a 24" Krieger 1:13.5" twist is in the 3440' sec range. The LT-32 was Lot 6.

Zdog (Chris Mitchell)
Click to expand...

No wonder you need a new barrel after 1500 or so!
 
Russ,
"My 30BR with 34.5gr LT-30 BIB 112gr 21.5" Bartlien 16.5 twist should be a tad slow"

Is that what you won the 200 yd Nationals and 2nd in the Grand with? If so, I would like for you to change it. :D

See you in May...unless you can hitch-hike to KC in April
 
Yes Jason

"My 30BR with 34.5gr LT-30 BIB 112gr 21.5" Bartlien 16.5 twist should be a tad slow"

That combination won me nine trophies last year. two were at the nationals.

I don't think I will make Desoto in April ....

Russ
 
Zdog

You got me thinking! what if! since I preload at home my LT-30 has not been exposed to humidity like most loaders would have at the range. I have a temp and humidity gauge on my loading bench in the basement. my loading room is always between 68*-72* 30-55% humidity. I know the 30BR is supposed to be less temp and humidity sensitive than the ppc's that might be why it worked so well for me last year.

Test:1
I will weight out 10 rounds of LT-30 preload them set them outside on a humid 80% or above couple of days like being at a match all weekend then go back to reloading room pull the bullets and see if the powder charges weight the same as when I loaded them.

Test:2
I will go to the range on a humid day with 10 preloaded rounds of LT-30 and shoot them to make sure my rifle in tune. then load the same 10 pieces of brass at the range same powder measure setting and see if it stays in tune.

That might shed a little light on your LT's powder deterrent coating theory.

Worse thing that could happen is I would have more trigger time "oh darn!"

Russ
 
Z

yes, 5000 degree gas plasma is tough on all barrels, eventually. The smaller the bore size and the bigger the charge the worse it gets. Yes, Winter going ok. Nice December with lots of outings with Avon for grouse. Not many birds but had a good time. Now, settling down for the long pull toward the end of March and some signs of spring.

Going down to Pa for the annual meeting next week with Bunk, David S and Randy. Hope the weather cooperates. Ciao friend.
 
R Stiner said:
barrel likes 112gr 7-og better than the 118 10-og I'm gonna play more with the 118 10-og bullets I think they will shoot better with the right combination.

Russ
Click to expand...

Randy's 118-10's are great bullets, but I have found they are a lot trickier to keep shooting their best compared to his 112's. I now just stick to the 112's .
 
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