KG12 Bore Cleaner

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ehparis

Guest
I'm wondering why KG12 doesn't seem to be used by benchrest shooters. It's carried by MidWAY, Sinclair, and Brownell's. I bought some directly from the manufacturer after seeing the tests at http://www.jarheadtop.com/KG12_Test_Results.htm which I found quite interesting. Is it actually in common use?

Am I missing something? Is it as common as Shooter's Choice, Sweets and other ammonia based solvents? I notice that a brown colored liquid comes out of the barrel not the typical blue of ammonia based solvents. The tests at the web site cited show it vastly superior to any other copper removers in an interesting series of tests in which bullets were soaked and the weight before and after determined. The tests involved quite a number of other products.

It appears to be part of a complete line of cleaning products including carbon build up in the neck of a chamber as well as a traditional powder cleaning solvent. Are some of these other products in use as well? I've been amazed at the results with KG12 which I've been testing in several rifle barrels. Soaking the bores with ammonia products (Shooter's Choice) seemed to indicate all the copper fouling was removed as there is no sign of the telltale blue stain. Other products in the line include KG-1, KG-2, KG-3, and KG-4, none of which I've used. Am I missing something by not using some of the other products from this manufacturer?
 
A friend, who chambers his own barrels, uses KG 12 for his one shot and clean break in. He has a bore scope. To save time, he uses it a little differently than most. He wets a bore mop and moves it continuously up and down the bore, rather than just letting it soak.
 
I had a carbon ring in my 223 F class rifle I got some of there Carb-out it worked extreemly well to remove carbon, I have used KG 12 its rather hard to get all the brown out of barrel. I find Wipe-out works very good and easy to use
 
I believe soaking a barrel can cause compounds to form in the bore which might cause etching if left in too long. Yes, I have seen the tests of the different copper cleaners and noted that KG-12 worked the best. However, I do believe you can over-clean the bore also. I stick to Butches Bore Shine with bronze brushes simply because it works, and I never put guns away (bench guns) without cleaning first, ideally cleaning at the end of the match with the barrel still warm. ( I shoot Danzac exclusively) Also, most solvents loose their strength when exposed to light, heat, or simply left open for too long. I started using the smaller solvent bottles and only partially refill them from the 16 oz. bottle. Perhaps if I had a barrel that I just couldn't clean with my standard regimen, then I might use KG-12, but then again it might go to the scrap heap.
 
ehparis said:
I'm wondering why KG12 doesn't seem to be used by benchrest shooters. It's carried by MidWAY, Sinclair, and Brownell's. I bought some directly from the manufacturer after seeing the tests at http://www.jarheadtop.com/KG12_Test_Results.htm which I found quite interesting. Is it actually in common use?

Am I missing something? Is it as common as Shooter's Choice, Sweets and other ammonia based solvents? I notice that a brown colored liquid comes out of the barrel not the typical blue of ammonia based solvents. The tests at the web site cited show it vastly superior to any other copper removers in an interesting series of tests in which bullets were soaked and the weight before and after determined. The tests involved quite a number of other products.

It appears to be part of a complete line of cleaning products including carbon build up in the neck of a chamber as well as a traditional powder cleaning solvent. Are some of these other products in use as well? I've been amazed at the results with KG12 which I've been testing in several rifle barrels. Soaking the bores with ammonia products (Shooter's Choice) seemed to indicate all the copper fouling was removed as there is no sign of the telltale blue stain. Other products in the line include KG-1, KG-2, KG-3, and KG-4, none of which I've used. Am I missing something by not using some of the other products from this manufacturer?
Click to expand...

Don't overlook KG1 for copper. I use it in all my rifles and verified with a bore scope has worked great.
 
Sweets

I have a friend who conducted his own test,using Sweets Copper remover. He submerged a piece of stainless Steel, cut off from a barrel, in a container filled with Sweets. The Barrel stub has been soaking in the sweets for about eight(8) years now. So far there has been no evidence that Sweets etched the bore. He checks the stub periodically just to satisfy his curiosity. Dont know how long he intends to let the Stub soak. Perhaps until it etches the bore.



Glenn
 
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Chism G said:
I have a friend who conducted his own test,using Sweets Copper remover. He submerged a piece of stainless Steel, cut off from a barrel, in a container filled with Sweets. The Barrel stub has been soaking in the sweets for about eight(8) years now. So far there has been no evidence that Sweets etched the bore. He checks the stub periodically just to satisfy his curiosity. Dont know how long he intends to let the Stub soak. Perhaps until it etches the bore.



Glenn
Click to expand...

That test does not duplicate what takes place in a rifle bore which includes Sweets mixed with dissolved compounds of copper and powder/primer residues .....and in the presence of air.
 
My Experience

Well,,here's my experience with Sweets. I unintentionally left sweets in a Stainless Match barrel for a week. When I discovered what I had done,I cleaned the barrel and rushed my Rifle over to A Benchrest Gunsmith who had a Borescope.

I feared that my bore had been damaged from the rumored chemical reaction from Sweets Solvent. The Borescope examination revealed a squeaky clean bore and absolutely no visible damage to Rifling.

The label on the bottle says Sweets is HARMLESS to steel and contains 5% Ammonia and no Acid. The label also advises not to leave it in the barrel longer than 15 minutes. The mystery is,what happens if you leave it in the barrel longer than 15 minutes. It soaked in my barrel a week. I don't intend to make that(Week) a habit but Where is the evidence that ammonia based cleaners etch barrels? I use Sweets when I get a lot of copper in my barrel,especially during break in. It works for me.


Glenn
 
I made the same mistake with a chromoly barrel and it was pitted. It was my fault, but since I have other excellent solvents that do not have that potential, I discontinued using Sweets for anything. I don't need it.
 
KEITH MYERS said:
Don't overlook KG1 for copper. I use it in all my rifles and verified with a bore scope has worked great.
Click to expand...

Keith

I'm curious why you mention copper in connection with KG1. It is my understanding that KG1 is a "carbon remover."

Jerry
 
Keith

I also am confused. I ordered and received all five KG products. KG2 is also described as a copper remover but it is recommended to "polish the bore" after KG12 is used. The product line is an interesting one and I plan to explore all its possibilities.
 
To follow up on my earlier comments: (1) KG1 is described as a carbon remover which "quickly removes powder fouling AND carbon buildup." (2) KG2 is described as removing copper and as a "bore polisher." It is also described as removing lead fouling. It "leaves embedded copper in the micro fractures of the bore." (3) KG3 is a solvent degreaser. It is used to flush KG1 and KG2 from the bore. (4) KG4 is then used (a gun oil) to protect the newly degreased bore from rust (5) KG12 is "designed to remove the toughest of copper fouling" but removes no other metal. It appears that KG12 is for the stubborn copper fouling while KG2 is for routine use in cleaning. I ordered all five products from E. Arthur Brown, Inc. at a package price of 35 dollars. Thus far I've only used KG12 to remove copper from one barrel. I flushed with a combination of Shooter's Choice and Kroil (2 to 1 mixture). No further copper fouling was seen after letting the rifle stand vertically while soaked with this combination so apparently KG12 works as the barrel is a known copper fouler.

Jerry
 
KG2 is an interesting solvent. It's a sort of a JB bore cleaner that has been watered down. It does seem to work on both powder fouling and copper. It's supposed to work on copper according to the bottle and the "polishing of the bore" presumably is related to the grit suspended in liquid.
 
Sweets 7.62 does etch.....

My buddy and I had just finished a day shooting 2200 centerfires between us, we were tired and exhausted as we sat in front of the motel nursing a case of beer and cleaning our rifles. My buddy's nose started running.

We each had 6 rifles in rifle cradles and were working up to Sweetezing them all at one time. Well, my buddy got Sweets on his hand and was wiping his nose and did not realize Sweets was on his fingers.

Next morning we got up to start the dog war all over again, but my buddy had scabs all over his upper lip and nose where Sweet's had etched his skin.

We now use Montana Extreme Copper killer.
 
To the original question. Most BR shooters with handlapped barrels probably don't need all the cleaning ability KG-12 affords.
If a BR barrel is getting high doses of copper fouling its time for a new barrel, not a better cleaner. JMO
 
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