Just a thoght

JerrySharrett

JerrySharrett

Senile Member
Just a thought

Joe Krupa is telling like it is. He and I have been shooting about the same lenght of time. He just learns faster!!

As to shooting, I've about shot it all. The last shooting sport I was in, there were claybirds. If they came out of the house one way we called it Skeet, if they came out of the house another way we called it Trap. Then there was Sporting LCays and 5-Stand. Any house any claybird we shot it.

Kind of like Studds McKee, the Egg and the Chicken.

Now, as to punching holes in paper, if there is just one mothball call it group. If there are multiple mothballs call it Score. Then there is 600 yard and 1000 yard, one mothball, group and score.

It's all fun. Try it!!
 
Last edited:
Frikkin spell checking. iespell is now charging to use their stinking product and I just upgraded browsers so you are going to see how good I can really spell...frikkin jerks!!
 
Since Joe went to all that trouble.....

From Joe Krupa..

First off, I am the current director of the Eastern Region of the NBRSA. In case you don't know this, the Eastern Region borders what is historically thought of as IBS territory. This is where the break between the two organizations supposedly occurred. If you think you have difficulties in philosophy where you live and shoot, let's compare stories some time.

I wasn't around during that time, but there are still quite a few of our members here in the region (and elsewhere) who were and have some strong thoughts about that divergence. The reasons for the divergence and the associated hard feelings seem to be slowly fading with the passage of time - which is a good thing. Please read on.

What looks like has happened in the time since that divergence, at least around this part of the country, is that the two organizations seem to have developed into the areas that their VOTING members have wanted them to go; similar paths but addressing what their members wanted to do from a shooting discipline perspective. The NBRSA VOTING members have taken that organization down basically a group-shooting path, but have hunter class and long range disciplines, too. The IBS also has group matches, but has developed more toward a score shooting organization, which again is where their VOTING members have taken them. Similar, but different in perhaps a good way. Please read on.

I will say that when I started shooting benchrest I shot a 6PPC in a VFS score match. Because the equipment and caliber were the same I tried to shoot some group matches, too. (In fact, I can remember driving home from my first group match with my tail between my legs saying that maybe I should give up this group thing and stick to shooting score matches.) I just wanted to pull the trigger and try my best, no matter what the discipline was. The transition was easier at that time from VFS to group because of the equipment and caliber being basically the same. (I tried the 6X hunter class and can honestly say that it was way too hard for me to pick up on - my hat is off to those guys who can do that as well as they do.) However, I see the transition between VFS to group (or vice versa) being a bit more difficult today with the advent of the .30 BR. One still can compete with a PPC in VFS, but it is considerably more difficult than it was ten years ago.

That being said, I must say that I still shoot both group and score and enjoy both disciplines. I am a member of both organizations. They really aren't that much different in philosophy and the desires of the members to basically further both precision and accuracy. And there are a lot of great people in both. And when I go to a match, whether within either organization or unregistered, I follow the rules that have developed for that organization.

I have been following this thread closely and I can see three things that show a lack of understanding:

1) The NBRSA doesn't hate the IBS or vice versa. I would venture a guess that I have participated in more matches than darn near anyone else in this sport the past ten years and I have only seen minor differences between individuals hiding under the guise of a difference between the organizations.

2) I'm not an old phart director who resists change. (If you don't believe me, come to a match and let's compete; then let's have an intelligent discussion.) But, as we have seen since the most recent elections, that change only for change's sake may lead you into a worse position than where we were when we started, and

3) If you feel strongly enough about seeing the two organizations merge or having VFS in the NBRSA, or whatever, make a proposal to your director. But, don't just pass the ball to that person and expect them to do your bidding without working at least as hard as they do to start a "grass roots" movement to get the proposal some momentum. The last time I checked both organizations are a democracy and if the majority of the membership wants to make a change, then it will happen. But, that doesn't occur by sitting at the keyboard.

I, and most of the guys on this Board, are getting a little irked about seeing posts about what we should be doing without those posting showing up and trying to work at making positive change. The whole world has way too many "idea men" and not enough doers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we have more important and potentially hobby-limiting or ending issues outside of these two organizations to be bickering amongst ourselves. And if you feel strongly enough about making positive change, get out there and work at seeing it happen. And add to that, join at least one if not both of our shooting organizations. In fact, I saw today that the NRA is offering some tremendous incentives for membership increases in this time of political turmoil. We could be losing one of our most valuable rights and we are worried about whether we can hit a dot or our next shot.
 
From a "use-ta-be" centerfire guy.

I joined NBRSA in 1956, and have seen a lot of changes over the years. Back then there was only ONE class and NBRSA was the ONE Benchrest organization.

40 some years ago when IBS broke off from NBRSA, I though it was a BAD mistake and that it would hurt the sport. It did. The reason for the split was personality conflict. Such a shame.

Club officers and volunteers have a limit on the amount of time they can spend doing the work required to promote matches. Matches don't just happen. They require lots of volunteer workers. When a club runs different types of matches, those volunteers spread out pretty thin.

Don't expect your club officers to be all things to all shooters.

I shoot rimfire now, because my doctor told me to quit CF or loose ALL my hearing.

Association Spin-Off must be a disease. It spread like wildfire when rimfire benchrest started back in the early 90's. We have had NINE different National Associations promoting rimfire benchrest. THREE of them are now dead, and the other SIX are on life support: Taking small slices out of a very small pie.

IBS, BR-50 and NBRSA are the dead ones in rimfire. The NRA A-23 target shown below is not used in sanctioned BR matches. Just shown for comparison.

Joe Haller
Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan

10NationalTargets.jpg
 
Joe Haller said:
I joined NBRSA in 1956, and have seen a lot of changes over the years. Back then there was only ONE class and NBRSA was the ONE Benchrest organization.

40 some years ago when IBS broke off from NBRSA, I though it was a BAD mistake and that it would hurt the sport. It did. The reason for the split was personality conflict. Such a shame.

Club officers and volunteers have a limit on the amount of time they can spend doing the work required to promote matches. Matches don't just happen. They require lots of volunteer workers. When a club runs different types of matches, those volunteers spread out pretty thin.

Don't expect your club officers to be all things to all shooters.

I shoot rimfire now, because my doctor told me to quit CF or loose ALL my hearing.

Association Spin-Off must be a disease. It spread like wildfire when rimfire benchrest started back in the early 90's. We have had NINE different National Associations promoting rimfire benchrest. THREE of them are now dead, and the other SIX are on life support: Taking small slices out of a very small pie.

IBS, BR-50 and NBRSA are the dead ones in rimfire. The NRA A-23 target shown below is not used in sanctioned BR matches. Just shown for comparison.

Joe Haller
Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan

10NationalTargets.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanx for the image Joe this is the first time I have seen them all in one place. One thing they all have in common, a center to shoot at.
Thanx again.

D R
 
I've been shooting 10 years

and here in New England we do not have any Group events nor any NBRSA events. I have paid to be a member of NBRSA a couple of years because I like their magazine and I wanted to be able to voice my opinion on a couple of things and did not feel justified in doing so unless I was a member. Personally, I prefer a magazine that is strictly match results vs the omnivorous content in Precision Shooteing. Most of the articles in it, I have no or little interest in.

When I started shooting Score, almost all the VFS shooters were using 6 PPC's with the exception of Jim Goody and Parker Hills. They both shot big 30's. The next year, there began to be a lot of discussion about the 30 BR and some of us decided to try them. A couple of years into that, we arrived at the BUD to see a sign which stated 30 BR Graveyard. The next year, the majority of shooters at the BUD were shooting 30 BR's.

The 30 BR has taken Score to where it is today. The edge it provides and the accuracy of the chambering has changed things forever, as we have seen. Tuners are a natural progression to making CF Benchrest Rifles even closer to lazers. All of this has been a positive thing for the sport of Benchrest.

There have been a number of new clubs come along because of the 30 BR. It gives many people the tool to shoot a 250 with a decent x count. Considering what Jackie Schmidt use to say about the 6 PPC and may still feel the same: " 75% of all the rifles on the line are out of tune at any given time", perhaps this is why Score has grown a lot, the 30 BR doesn't have the same ills; the 75% out of tune. Perhaps it is the evolution of the equipment that has made this happen and why a number of NBRSA loyal members would like to be able to compete in NBRSA with a VFS rifle. I don't think it has a lot to do with Group competition. It is a lot easier to put on a Score match and it is a lot of fun to participate. I have only shot in one sanctioned Group match and I must say, I found it a lot easier to compete in than a Score match. I enjoyed it and would do it again but it was easier for me to do not bad than it is for me to shoot VFS.

Here in the East, most of us live within reasonable driving distances to matches so most of us are content and like shooting one yardage per day. I think a lot of folks prefer that to the "Hog Rasle" of a weekend and multi yardages. It allows one to have either Saturday or Sunday to participate in something the rest of society does for fun. I know, for me, the two or the multi yardage shoots are a pain to deal with. I can see that it is easier for a club to run them vs two different dates but as a shooter, I prefer to do one yardage per day; may say something about my age?

Anyway, it's the "Ugly Duckling" that has brought us to where we are today. Sure, some of the long standing records were shot with the 6 PPC but most of them, if not all have been toppled and the coveted 25 x has been duplicated numerous times since the "Ugly Duckling" came to be. Which one is closer to the Graveyard when it comes to Score Shooting?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top