Internal threading tool/ remington 700

S

skeetlee

Active member
What would you fellas recommend for truing the internal threads of a Remington 700, or any other factory action? Carbide or HSS?
Reason I ask is that I realize my turning speeds are going to be very slow while single pointing the threads. Will carbide be ok at such a slow speed? Another thought as far as HSS is concerned. Will HSS be strong enough for the hardness of a rifle action? I know a Remington isn't really all that hard, but I thought I better check into it. Lee
 
I use a micro 100 internal thread tool. And i use a carmex indexable set that is pitch specific. Both work very well but im sure a custom ground hss tool would be superior. All it does really is clean out the sealant and cut very lightly at certain spots that are out of round. Never a heavy cut
 
G'day Skeet

I have used full form carbide inserts for both internal and external threading for a long time. I have never had any issues with finish or accuracy even though on my manual lathe they are being operated at well under their optimum RPM.. I re-cut rem700 threads at about 250 RPM with a superb finish!
Full form inserts means you can rough bore to about 0.002 undersize and then use the full form inserts to completely finish the threads as the full form cuts the tops of as well..
As a matter of fact i only use full form inserts to cut all of my threads, both internal and external.
As long as you use a quality insert manufacturer, ( I use Iscar or Mitsubishi) you can't go wrong..

Cheers
Leeroy (Lee) :cool:
 
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my threading tools are all Kennametal. I know Kennametal is top tier stuff, but I am not all that impressed. I have to run some pretty serious speeds on my final passes to be pleased. I would like to explore a different threading tool, but good ones are not cheap. I thought this Kennametal stuff would have been the cats behind, but like I say, I think ill try something else.

I made some jigs and such today to check just how much runout my Remington 700 actions had and I was pretty impressed. The face is out about .0025 and the threads look to be around .003 I was expecting much more.
 
As to internal threading tools for something like a Rem 700, due to the small diameter bore and the 16tpi profile, you would need a carbide shanked bar to get suitable results. You can use whatever insert type you favor but you will need the carbide shank bar. Carbide doesn't spring or bend.
 
JerrySharrett said:
As to internal threading tools for something like a Rem 700, due to the small diameter bore and the 16tpi profile, you would need a carbide shanked bar to get suitable results. You can use whatever insert type you favor but you will need the carbide shank bar. Carbide doesn't spring or bend.
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You need a carbide bar to thread a 1 1/16 hole 7/8" deep? I've done at least 60 actions with a a standard 16mm threading bar and er16 inserts with zero problems.. No doubt a carbide bar would likely offer a more rigid setup but it is not necessary by any means..

Cheers
Leeroy
 
Leeroy said:
You need a carbide bar to thread a 1 1/16 hole 7/8" deep? I've done at least 60 actions with a a standard 16mm threading bar and er16 inserts with zero problems.. No doubt a carbide bar would likely offer a more rigid setup but it is not necessary by any means..

Cheers
Leeroy
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Leroy, you can use a warm wet banana if that is your choice. My point is that to get a predictable result a carbide shank bar is BEST!!!!
 
Internal Threads on a manual lathe

1. Often you get what you pay for with tooling. Better quality and pretty cost more.

2. With Slow speed turning in both 4140 and 416 HSS will give a better finish.

3. A 1 1/16" hole allows for some larger tool holders.

4. Even with a rigid set up you normally will only be taking light cuts with internal threading.

Carbide likes speed, it likes no backlash, or brushing against the stock when returning for the next pass. In other words it is hard and brittle. (Chips easily)

HSS works well at lower speeds and is much more forgiving.

There is a huge difference between high speed CNC, flood coolant machining and manual machining. Especially in holes where you can see.

Nat Lambeth
 
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Thanks Boyd, I fixed it, your a good proof reader and friend. Another case of my fingers working faster than my brain.

Not the case with this wonderful forum, but spell check doesn't read my mind well.

Nat Lambeth
 
Rustystud said:
1. Often you get what you pay for with tooling. Better quality and pretty cost more.

2. With Slow speed turning in both 4140 and 416 HSS will give a better finish.

3. A 1 1/16" hole allows for some larger tool holders.

4. Even with a rigid set up you normally will only be taking light cuts with internal threading.

Carbide likes speed, it likes no backlash, or brushing against the stock when returning for the next pass. In other words it is hard and brittle. (Chips easily)

HSS works well at lower speeds and is much more forgiving.

There is a huge difference between high speed CNC, flood coolant machining and manual machining. Especially in holes where you can see.

Nat Lambeth
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Nat, I'm not particularly suggesting carbide inserts for slow speed threading. I am talking about a carbide SHANK bar. A carbide insert will work fine for slow rpm and light cuts if it is SHARP. most all current carbide inserts as they come out of the box have some kind of "land" or radius on the very edge. Before insert carbides, when General Electric Carboloy first came on the market it was cemented to a tool steel shank we used to take a diamond impregnated wheel and put a razor edge on and do some things you darn sure can't do with modern tooling.

How do you think we threaded the prop shaft on Noah's Ark?


.
 
I use A R Warner HSS inserts for most of my threading. I can usally find one of their inserts to replace a carbide one, so I can use the same holder.
 
JerrySharrett said:
Nat, I'm not particularly suggesting carbide inserts for slow speed threading. I am talking about a carbide SHANK bar. A carbide insert will work fine for slow rpm and light cuts if it is SHARP. most all current carbide inserts as they come out of the box have some kind of "land" or radius on the very edge. Before insert carbides, when General Electric Carboloy first came on the market it was cemented to a tool steel shank we used to take a diamond impregnated wheel and put a razor edge on and do some things you darn sure can't do with modern tooling.

How do you think we threaded the prop shaft on Noah's Ark?


.
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Jerry no argument that carbide holders are stiffer for their size. I have some Mini Boring bars from Kaizer Tool Company "Thin Bit Tooling". Real expensive too.

If you crash one they will snap like a twig "Ouch".

Nat Lambeth
 
I use a Grizzly H8305 with a H3851 insert, I gave away my AR Warner HSS internal threading tools after using this, running slow speed and light cuts with excellent surface finish. I use very little HSS anymore, once I figured out and found the right advice on how to set up carbide I get so much better results.
 
bigngreen said:
I use a Grizzly H8305 with a H3851 insert, I gave away my AR Warner HSS internal threading tools after using this, running slow speed and light cuts with excellent surface finish. I use very little HSS anymore, once I figured out and found the right advice on how to set up carbide I get so much better results.
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I had my eye on the same internal threading bar. As for inserts, scour eBay....you can get good inserts way cheaper than buying from grizzly.

PS...if you have anymore HSS stuff, I'll gladly take it off your hands!
 
Guys, I've been in this metal removal (machining) business since 1955. You new wanna-be gunsmiths, using super cheap machine tools and super cheap cutting tools, thats ok and good for learning. Just don't expect to output super good results with that. It anna' gonna' happen!!
 
JerrySharrett said:
Guys, I've been in this metal removal (machining) business since 1955. You new wanna-be gunsmiths, using super cheap machine tools and super cheap cutting tools, thats ok and good for learning. Just don't expect to output super good results with that. It anna' gonna' happen!!
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Fair enough Jerry.. Good quality gear certainly makes life much easier i agree..:)
You obviously have many years in the trade and i'm sure this question has been asked many times before, but if you were to buy a new lathe for smithing work, with a $20K budget, what would it be? (genuine question)


Cheers
Lee
 
Leeroy said:
Fair enough Jerry.. Good quality gear certainly makes life much easier i agree..:)
You obviously have many years in the trade and i'm sure this question has been asked many times before, but if you were to buy a new lathe for smithing work, with a $20K budget, what would it be? (genuine question)


Cheers
Lee
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$20k for the machine alone, or $20k total including purchase, shipping, rigging, electrical, tool-up......
 
Rubicon Prec. said:
$20k for the machine alone, or $20k total including purchase, shipping, rigging, electrical, tool-up......
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$20K for the machine alone.. I already have all of the tooling fixtures etc.
Keep in mind though i am in Australia so any suggestions would not be of much use to me if it was not able to be shipped here..

Cheers
Lee
 
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