How Many Are Just Trying To Get To Where You Were A Few Years Ago

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
I have been talking to enough shooters accross the Country to get a feeling that there is a "plague" in the Benchrest Community. That being, try as you may, you cannot seem to compete at a level you did a few years back.

Have we all gone dumb, forgot how to read conditions, forgot how to chamber barrels, or stopped paying attention to any of the other miriad of items that go into being a successfull Benchrest Shooter.

My 6PPC program is in the toilet. I can remember, starting about 6 years ago, (and seeming to end about a year and a half ago), that I could shoot no less than 8 "teen" aggs during the course of Regional Shooting Season. Now, the only Bag Gun I feel will shoot at a sub .200 level is my HV 30BR, and that is primarilly my Score Rifle.

Is it barrels. Bullets, Powder??? Heck, I have a whole stack of new 6mm blanks, all less than 3 months old, that are showing no promise at all. I did score a decent Rail Gun barrel, but that blank was actually purchased about 2 years ago.

Look at the Match Reports. There are a lot of shooters who we are used to seeing at the top who have seemingly fallen into a malaze of mediocrety. And, they are beating their heads against the wall, (just like a lot of us), trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

At the moment, I am digging old barrels out of the junk pile and setting them back, That's bad. And, while cleaning out the garage, I found a unopenned box of old Watson 65 grn on .825 jackets, heck, these things might be 10 years old. But, I am going to take my Rail Gun to the range and see how they do.

Anybody else noticing any of this. Or am I just inflicted with the old headinassitis that can creep into any program at a moments notice. I feel like I am doing nothing different than I did 5 years ago, but could not "buy" a sub .200 agg if Wal Mart ran a special on them............jackie
 
If you talk with some of the barrel manufacturers, you will find out that they have been using steel from lots of different sources over the last couple years...there's a reason for that!
 
"I have been talking to enough shooters accross the Country to get a feeling that there is a "plague" in the Benchrest Community. That being, try as you may, you cannot seem to compete at a level you did a few years back."

In a word.... AGE!
 
No, Hal is on the right track. There are people that obviously are shooting well. How many barrels do they go through to find what they use?
 
I think there are two contributing factors and the main one being barrels. I think there is something to the conditions changing as I remember ten years ago when conditions were generally blustery, and of course it would move a bullet quite a bit, but it seems about 5 or 6 years ago that things changed and while the wind doesn't blow as hard it seems as though there is a more adverse effect on the bullet. Maybe it's just that the competition has gotten so tough and the aggs so small to generally win, that top notch equipment (which I think is currently harder to get) is defly necessary. I could be wrong, but it's just my 2 cents.

Matthew S Keller
 
jackie schmidt said:
I have been talking to enough shooters across the Country to get a feeling that there is a "plague" in the Benchrest Community. That being, try as you may, you cannot seem to compete at a level you did a few years back.

Have we all gone dumb, forgot how to read conditions, forgot how to chamber barrels, or stopped paying attention to any of the other miriad of items that go into being a successful Benchrest Shooter.

......jackie
Click to expand...
No, some of us are shooting more and enjoying it more. If I had ever thought benchrest was work, I'd never started it. I do it for fun.

Like Tony B says if you are not first, you are a looser. He didn't say it exactly that way but it means the same if you think that winning is everything. What Tony actually said is that second place is just first looser. Looking at it that way, if you are unhappy because you didn't win, I guess it isn't fun is it?

Many are getting much older and the eyesight thing becomes an issue, just ask Hal D. At Weikert he had to tell me where my bullet holes were for the first 3 targets in the morning when the sun was in the wrong place. And this was while were were still at 100 yards. It's still a lot of fun though. If it weren't, I'd quit.
 
Sorry fellas I REFUSE to accept the fact that it is age.

Well maybe I should take it back??????????? Maybe it is age??????

The crop of guys who used to shoot the hell out of everyone else is past there peek? The new crop of shooters are just not up to what the old crop were?

Nah it is not so... Look at Tony. One hell of a shooter whether you love him or hate him. A man in his early 70's. Then there is Gene Bukys. He is in his early 60's and is a force to be reckoned with when things are working. I want to believe something that Jackie said a while back about getting used to shooting and tuning with a combination that one has a lot of. When one of the great components runs out, it is starting from scratch. Maybe there is something to workign and trying with new lots of components....... every now and then.

JMO

Calvin
 
Not to send this thread into a whole nother tangent, but in score, there are some that believe the reticle is a bit less forgiving than the plugs that were used in past years; hence lowering scores somewhat overall. I guess it's possible and tend to agree with them but I think it is very marginal with some give and take for both scoring devices.--Mike Ezell
 
Since it is an "OpEd"..opinion thread...my opinion is bullet and barrels...not compatible...I know of two 30BR barrels that require a .2996 bushing on the reamer..that shoot fantastic/consistantly...I have two barrels that will accept the .3000bushing...that are HoHum barrels...results change with each lot of bullets..:mad:

Just my 2 cents worth..

Eddie in Texas
 
I have an idea....

Well maybe we need to step off the bandwagon and start trying some different components
 
My thoughts...............
Barrels ..... and BULLET JACKETS! In the 10 years I have made bullets, jackets have gotten a lot softer. The best bullets I ever made was about 8 years ago when I didn't have a clue about what I was doing! The softer jackets make a much longer over all length bullet. Is this the problem? I don't know, but I am a firm believer that harder jackets shoot better.
 
In my case its age and eyesight. At least I like to think so. 74 year old eyes full of floaters are not good for tight groups.

Donald
 
Jackie. I don't know what you are talking about. This is my best year.....:)
Great barrel. Really good bullets. Some help from my friends.......
Heck, I earned 5 trophies. Set a range record. Won 4 matches. In 6 Benchrest Group Tournaments.
And all with a pinched nerve in my neck. At the ATM it feels like my eye balls are going to pop out.
And NO I don't feel sorry for myself. Just that it could have been a better year.

By the way. This is my second year at Registered Benchrest Group.
Proof that the NBRSA Eastern Region Training Program works.
Tim B.
 
Tim, that may be a part of Jackie's question. A fair number of us do our best shooting 2-3 years into the sport. But instead of progressing, we stagnate, and sometimes get worse.

I think that's mental. At first, you learn about the important things in benchrest shooting. As you get them down, you start paying attention to the small details -- they become important to you. Next, you wind up paying more attention to the small details than the important things. At that point, you don't shoot as well as you use to.

I think equipment is getting better. It use to be you never saw a teen agg. Now there's one most every match.

I think there are a lot more choices for equipment. Some of them, bullets, rests, bags, windflags, etc. aren't always things you just pick up and start using to best advantage. Most of us figure we already know how to use that new item to best advantage. If/when we're wrong, our shooting gets worse and we don't know why.

I remember a couple things in particular -- new wind flags, and a new rear bag. Boy, those wind flags were a lot more sensitive than my old ones. Had to learn to ignore some of what they were saying. And the new bag had the latest thinking. Double-stiched bottom. The stock tracked real good. Only problem was, the rifle flipped a shot now and then. Me? The bag? Something else?

When you start out, you pay attention to what you've got, and you don't got all that much.
 
Now with more free time, I shoot more than ever. Sometimes 8 days a week. When
I had one gun, I didn't shoot to bad. Adding more equiptment and 6 more 6ppc's
finds me trying different things, bullets, reamers. Throw in a 30 BR and no brainer
tuning. It becomes easy to play musical chairs with bags and rests as well as
all the other stuff. With all that shooting, a certain apathy sneaks in. My new range
is not user friendly, as it points NE. Not being able to shoot early erodes those
nice tuning conditions. Three valleys join and form a bottom where my range is located.
The conditions are somewhat elusive, so,My inability to cope with all the changes raise
hell with my tuning methods. I have worn out many barrels working on loads . Had I
to start over, it would be one gun and I would focus on the stuff that matters
 
I'm with Charles on a lot of this. Benchrest is a sport that can get harder the longer you compete. We master the important basics at first, shoot well (if we have good equipment), then naturally drift into the more esoteric areas of Benchrest trying to further refine and improve our performance. But along the way, it's easy to forget the basics that allowed us to shoot well at the beginning....windflags, follow through, keeping your head down as the rifle comes back....the important stuff.

In our technical search for half a tenth, we give up two tenths because we're not taking care of the basics. And in testing things, we can easliy slide into test-mode only and forget about practice-mode. At a registered match, with the clock running and flags doing anything but what you want...is no time to practice.

Sometimes, we lose our focus because of other things going on in life. We think our brains are at the tournaments, when in fact our brains are elsewhere...business, work, family...you name it. We're 'there' physically but not mentally. And if we're honest with ourselves, we know it. So we try harder. Which makes it worse.

I struggled in 2009 and for the first time since I've shot Benchrest, ended the 2009 season without a yardage win in registered competition. The early part of this year was the same. Later this season, I was able to get get refocused and ended up winning a yardage at the IBS Score Nationals, ended up second in the Grand Agg and sixth in the Two Gun. A couple of weeks later, I won the IBS Two Gun at Webster City.

As far as equipment goes, there aren't any issues I've seen. I had my first 'bad' .30 cal. barrel last season, but the mfg. replaced it and the new one is a killer. Bullet jackets have gone through some changes, but killer good dies still produce killer good bullets. I've seen several action issues lately, but maybe we're just getting better in our troubleshooting process?

I can't really speak to the 6PPC equipment stuff, as I'm a .30 cal. guy.

Though I can relate a recent good example of the 'basics' as regards a certain 6PPC....;)

Good shootin'. :D -Al
 
A friend, whose work schedule keeps him for competing, started out in benchrest shooting the best rimfire equipment, over flags, and did this for several years. Looking at his targets, and talking to him, he was getting excellent results, and had a handle on what he was doing.

After doing this for several years, I convinced him that he might enjoy a centerfire rig. He had Clarance Hammond build him a good one. He shot a good percentage of teen groups with but started to notice some deterioration of performance as the first barrel got to a round count that was consistent with it being worn out, by competition standards. He ordered another barrel. He couldn't get out of the twos. He tried another...still the same. Thinking something must have happened to the action, some sort of wear, he ordered another rifle.

About that time, I happened to be shooting with him, and noticed that his follow through, so important to the rimfire success that he had had, seemed to have slipped. Looking down range, I could see that one of his flags had a problem that needed fixing.

Since I was the one that got him into this part of shooting, he would ask me when he needed to solve a problem, so I took the liberty of inquiring about his tuning and loading. I should mention that he had a habit of preloading much of the time.

To make a long story short, we discovered about about a dozen details that had slipped: Trigger pulled too aburptly, lack of follow through, a rear bag issue, a broken wind flag. and some loading and tuning issues. The list was about a dozen long, all little things that had crept into his game, that added up to nearly a tenth of an inch. Once we had identified them, I had him write them down for future reference.

About the time that the second rifle arrived, he was shooting the old one like when he first got it. I should mention that his rimfire shooting had left him with a good understanding of wind flags, and that after we got him back on track, he was able to pretty much self coach, once he new what sort of things he should be looking for. The reason that any of this was possible, was that he didn't have ego issues that prevented him from asking and listening. I should add, that the reason that I could help him, is not that I am such a good shooter myself, but that it is much easier to see someone else's problems than one's own.

My point in all of this, goes back to something that Del Bishop once told me. He said that his gun handling had become automatic, something that he did not have to think about, which allowed him to concentrate on the flags without distraction, but that if a problem developed,with his gun handling, it made it harder for him to identify.

At the time of that conversation, Del was shooting very competitively, and when he practiced, it was with a group that would go to a nearby range and shoot an agg., just like at a match. They had the advantage of having each other to work with, a group to discuss what seemed to be working, and to see what might be a problem that would be difficult to identify if shooting alone. I envied him that. For me, trying to figure it out by myself, can be an interesting problem, but there is no way to tell if you are missing something completely.

I suppose that the next logical step, for me, would be to take some video of myself, at the bench, shooting, to help me spot problem areas that I may not be aware of.

One thing that I have identified, that I know needs working on is my trigger pull. When trying to catch a brief condition, I think that is is easy to be too abrupt when pulling the trigger, and the noise and recoil generally mask the problem. I believe that this alone can turn a teen into a two. Bad habits can be hard to break.
 
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