J
JR_@_SAHUARO_1K
Guest
Anyone had problems with H4831 SC having excessive pressure ?
J
JR_@_SAHUARO_1K
Guest
It is an older lot of H4831 sc and is behaving very unstable - using in a 30 WSM
Pulled unfired rnds and they measured what I put in but some do damage to the primer others do not. I am thinking it has gone south.
I will try it in my other wsm and see what I get.
Pulled unfired rnds and they measured what I put in but some do damage to the primer others do not. I am thinking it has gone south.
I will try it in my other wsm and see what I get.
D
dk hunt 14
Guest
You changed nothing but the powder? No Seating depth change, No bullet lot change and no primer lot change? The same gun that you shot before? Matt
J
JR_@_SAHUARO_1K
Guest
Hi Matt,
Yep I had to go to this jug and It is far different than what I had before. Brass for the WSM ain't cheep so didn't want to fire too many.
JR
Yep I had to go to this jug and It is far different than what I had before. Brass for the WSM ain't cheep so didn't want to fire too many.
JR
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Smokeless powder manufacture can only have a consistent output if the exact same components are used for each batch...and , due to economics, that doesn't happen. Current manufacture uses the cellulose source from all kinds of whatever is available. Chipper flakes from roadside tree trimmings, pine needles, oak, hickory, elm. old fence posts, etc, whatever, is used from batch to batch resulting in different outcomes.
Back when Norma used cotton as the cellulose sources they had reasonably consistent results, but their powder was more expensive than the average. One deal there too, not as much cotton is being grown in the world due to synthetics. All that said, powder producers could afford to use cotton with the current powder process, but they ain't gonna'..
Factor in too, smokeless powder, depending on how long it is stored and in what environment, can change. I have some of Bruce Hodgdons original H4831 he shoveled out of the train cars. I bought it in the '50's and it is slightly weaker than it was in, say, 1964 when I first chronographed it and it has been stored in an underground facility with the daily temp of about 65F.
Never assume you are going to get the same results from varying lots of powder or even preloaded ammo that has ridden around in your trucks tool box for 29 years.
Back when Norma used cotton as the cellulose sources they had reasonably consistent results, but their powder was more expensive than the average. One deal there too, not as much cotton is being grown in the world due to synthetics. All that said, powder producers could afford to use cotton with the current powder process, but they ain't gonna'..
Factor in too, smokeless powder, depending on how long it is stored and in what environment, can change. I have some of Bruce Hodgdons original H4831 he shoveled out of the train cars. I bought it in the '50's and it is slightly weaker than it was in, say, 1964 when I first chronographed it and it has been stored in an underground facility with the daily temp of about 65F.
Never assume you are going to get the same results from varying lots of powder or even preloaded ammo that has ridden around in your trucks tool box for 29 years.
Lee Martin
Active member
Jerry is dead on. Recently, I finished an 8 lb'er of AA1680 in my .500 Maximum. It was from 2005 and ran a consistent 1,325 fps with a 525 grain cast (70 degrees). The next jug dated 2011 and the gun couldn't eclipse 1,270 fps; again tested at 70 degrees. Same gun, same bullet, same atmospheric conditions, and a 55 fps drop.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
T
TheoW
Guest
h4831 vs h4831sc
A few years ago I read an article that described h4831sc as being the same as h4831 ballistically. Physically SC meant Short Cut when describing the length of the powder kernel. It seems that a new mixture was slightly slower in burning,so by shortening the length of the kernel more surface area was exposed to increase the burning rate to match h4831. Volume wise a h4831sc charge takes less space than h4831 to give the same velocity. Naturally, multiple tolerances account for slight variations in performance. Do a YAHOO Search.
I also purchased surplus 4831 back in 1960 in a 50lb keg. I still have a few pounds and it's as good as the day I bought it.
Ted
A few years ago I read an article that described h4831sc as being the same as h4831 ballistically. Physically SC meant Short Cut when describing the length of the powder kernel. It seems that a new mixture was slightly slower in burning,so by shortening the length of the kernel more surface area was exposed to increase the burning rate to match h4831. Volume wise a h4831sc charge takes less space than h4831 to give the same velocity. Naturally, multiple tolerances account for slight variations in performance. Do a YAHOO Search.
I also purchased surplus 4831 back in 1960 in a 50lb keg. I still have a few pounds and it's as good as the day I bought it.
Ted
J
JR_@_SAHUARO_1K
Guest
No Al did -
It would be great if you actually added value to the posts instead of your......
Al's answer did give light that there may be 5gn's different between lots of powder.
JR )chill(
It would be great if you actually added value to the posts instead of your......
Al's answer did give light that there may be 5gn's different between lots of powder.
JR )chill(
E
eww1350
Guest
Yes, I had a strangely similar situation...I worked up a load for a new rifle...75.5 grains of H4831sc in RWS cases Fed 215M primers Berger 175 VLD...shot great no real high pressure signs either..loaded 400 up from one 8lb jug...and sent it on its way...owner shot it several times no issues...then owner called 2 months later said bolt was hard to open after firing..cooler weather higher altitude...I asked him to return the rifle...sure enough too hot...had to back it down to 73.5 grains..pulled all bullets and reloaded the remaining 350 rounds 
Still don't have any reason as to why it went hot..
Eddie in Texas
Still don't have any reason as to why it went hot..
Eddie in Texas
Myself and some others were gonna swap powders to something - can't remember. We won a few matches shooting it and it went bad over the winter. Couldn't buy a group shooting that stuff. I had/have a pretty good bunch of it laying around here somewhere...I think.
OK....I looked around till I found a jug - TAC! Was good stuff...then later, not so good...
OK....I looked around till I found a jug - TAC! Was good stuff...then later, not so good...
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Wilbur, that was the Western Powder/Ramshot/Accurate/Miles City powders, there were 2 and I can't think of them either, the ones that samples were passed out at a mid-2000's Super Shoot...then Vectan SP7.....
Edit-was it TAC and X-Terminator?
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Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
I thought it was just ramshot.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Dusty, when you get my and CCBW''s age and CRS you put down something that might be close. Comprande'.
OK, how about calling it the Miles City Montana Powder place?
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
I went and looked at my powder boneyard and it was Xterminator and Tac by the ramshot powder co. One of the jugs had a ramshot hat hanging on it that looked like it was given away at a feed store- it was just that stylish.
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
I think I said ramshot because i always wanted to remember that name and discriminate against anything they made. Yes im a profiler.