Gunsmith Lathe?

The one item I really want on my lathe is a footbrake. I think the 16x40 is larger than you need but the smaller lathe doesn't have the brake. I've been using a Grizzly Toolroom 13x40 for a few years and like it better each day. It's my second Grizzly lathe. If Grizzly makes/sells it you will get a good product and service with one provision: allow for crappy Chinese motors even though I've had no problems with the two I've owned but they may be Taiwanese for all I know.
 
Justin,

Either one of these lathes would be suitable for personal gun projects. Personally, for the price difference (if you need to ask for advice) I'd go for the cheaper model and put the price differential into a good vertical mill. Note that the bigger machine requires 3 phase power, which might be a problem for personal use. You can buy phase converters to get around this power issue, but you might want to walk before you run.

Scott
 
Thanks guys! your comments are really appreciated. What do you suggest for a mill.
 
Thanks guys! your comments are really appreciated. What do you suggest for a mill.
Unless you're planning on building rail guns or trying to flute barrels you won't need one of the larger mills. In fact, I've considered buying a mill/drill solely for cleaning up bedding and such. A mill/drill will do 90% of what I normally do but on the other hand, you can do it all on a 9x42 table on a knee mill and only spend another $1500 or so.

Tooling and such is a large item. Believe me, the cheap brazed carbide tools are not a good way to go. If you get a knee mill consider a power table feed. Again, Grizzly is a good route to take.
 
grizzly is nice, but

they never have any gunsmith lathes in stock-after many attempts to get a straight answer on a delivery date---(Three different calls three different answers ! all on the same day) I even e-mailed the owner who said he would get back to me but never did! I bought a jet it just isnt worth the hassle!
 
Grizzley lathes

I recieved my 4003G this week as promised. I ordered it in Jan and they said it would be May when they got it in . I screwed up when I wired up the plug and the Tech from Grizzley talked to me 4 times in 2 days trying to help get it running . It took an electrician about 15 min today to make it run . I have already recrowned 2 barrels today. In my books Grizzley is OK. ;)
 
they never have any gunsmith lathes in stock-after many attempts to get a straight answer on a delivery date---(Three different calls three different answers ! all on the same day) I even e-mailed the owner who said he would get back to me but never did! I bought a jet it just isnt worth the hassle!

It is very unfair to qoute on a public forum that I never responded to you after promising to do so!

I have a record of three emails sent to you, one from Taiwan, one after I got back and one when you told me not to bother. Would you like me to cut and paste these for all to see?

You also make it sound like we pull delivery dates from thin air. We have over 150 operators that do nothing but answer phones and take orders and the dates they give you are taken from the computer. These dates are updated automatically when information is fed to it. For example, if there is a shipment of 27 machines due to arrive at one of our facilities on June 28 and there are 26 orders for it, then the operator would tell a customer that may call in the morning that yes, one would be available from the next shipment on June 28. However, if the customer never placed an order (like you) and kept calling for delivery dates, that may change. It is entirely possible that by the time you called again there may have been some activity on the delivery dates, or other customers may have placed orders and that particular shipment got sold out. These dates are also specific to our three warehouses.

Have you tried buying a MARCH scope? I own two of them and waited 4 months to get them. If I did not put an order in for them and kept calling to find out when they would be coming in, I would still be waiting because the demand for these scopes exceeds the supply and the factory can only produce so many. I do not hold that against Kelbly's. They are a fine company to deal with!

Making lathes is not like microwaving a bag of popcorn. Beds have to be cast, gears need to machined from raw castings, hundreds of parts need to made for each lathe. This is putting it very simply.

Like I mentioned to all before, the demand for these lathes is much greater than the rate at which the factory can produce them. We have orders for hundreds of them and shipments are leaving every week from the factory. Two of our inspectors have been "camped" out there for quite some time now and have not seen their families in weeks. To the customers who are patiently waiting for delivery, I want to thank you and apologize for the delays. We are trying our best to get as many machines as possible on the sea to us. We have many, many more on order than we have orders for as we normally try to have a large stock on hand for immediete delivery.
 
Shiraz,

Why not make these lathes here in the USA since this is obviously where you sell so many of them?

I just poured the floor in my 1800 SF shop yesterday with one 15'x20' corner being 9" thick rebar reinforced for a mill and lathe. I looked at your products, and even called in to discuss specs with one of of your folks, right up until I saw the big "Made in China" sticker on the front.

Call me crazy, but I will buy used equipment "Made in America" before I will buy stuff made in China.

This is not personal, just an American trying to support other Americans. I would strongly encourage businesses to make their products where they sell them. I know all about global economics but you have clearly stated a demand that you cannot meet right here, and you don't need a Harvard MBA to figure this one out.


Best Regards,

Jeff in OH
 
Shiraz,

Why not make these lathes here in the USA since this is obviously where you sell so many of them?

I just poured the floor in my 1800 SF shop yesterday with one 15'x20' corner being 9" thick rebar reinforced for a mill and lathe. I looked at your products, and even called in to discuss specs with one of of your folks, right up until I saw the big "Made in China" sticker on the front.

Call me crazy, but I will buy used equipment "Made in America" before I will buy stuff made in China.

This is not personal, just an American trying to support other Americans. I would strongly encourage businesses to make their products where they sell them. I know all about global economics but you have clearly stated a demand that you cannot meet right here, and you don't need a Harvard MBA to figure this one out.


Best Regards,

Jeff in OH

Jeff,

I'll try to save you a bunch of trouble finding a used domestic machine:

There were very few made that have a big enough spindle bore to accept a barrel, unless you want a very large machine.........then the spindle will be too long to allow you to hold the left end of the barrel. You'll have a hard time finding a machine with the diameter/length combination of the imports...If you find one, beware...it will be well used, maybe even worn out.

Make the Grizzly stuff here??? You wouldn't have any problem with paying 7 to 10 times more for it, would you???............Without the chucks, tool post & holders, centers, etc. etc.???..............Most guys would find the added cost a problem.


I don't like the import thing any more than the next guy. I own American made vehicles.......car, truck, motorcycle..................because they are reasonable close in cost and availability. Machine tools are a whole different ball game.

-Dave-:)
 
Shiraz,

Why not make these lathes here in the USA since this is obviously where you sell so many of them?

Best Regards,

Jeff in OH

Believe me Jeff, that if we could make these here at an affordable price we would not support another country's economy. However, look at the big picture:

1) We have over 350 employees (Americans) whose jobs were created because of the stuff we import and resell.
2) Countless UPS drivers, truck drivers, postmen, longshoremen etc... are involved in handling our products on a daily basis. We ship tens of thousands of pounds of freight per day. Indirect partial employment by us.
3) We have 1.2 million square feet of warehouse space all of which we built using American architects and American contractors and numerous US made components.
4) With the equipment we sell, there are tens of thousands of self employed Americans that were able to buy affordable equipment and put themselves into business feeding their families and stimulating the economy with the ripple effect that flows when people spend money. Very often we have found that when a person gets laid off, they will buy three or four thousand dollars worth of machines and start making cabinets, doing small machine shop type projects etc. to make some money. Quite often I have seen these small one man shops turn into major businesses. And then we sell more equipment to them!

People pile on China, but the majority of our machines still come from Taiwan. However, the price difference just between China prices and Taiwan prices is sometimes a deterrent in affordability. Imagine what US made prices would do to the equation. We do have a few very nice lathes made in Taiwan that could be used in gunsmithing (in stock). Mr Coleman, whose post appears above, has one such lathe, but they are more money and if you have the money, they are very, very nice. Bob Pastor has our new 16 x 40 lathe and is thrilled beyond his expectations.
 
Shiraz & Dave,

I appreciate the comments. Still not interested in Made in China. We have to draw the line somewhere or our country will not survive. I am not saying it would be easy to make these here, nor would the margins be nearly as good (likely the real sticking point) but it could be done. And I doubt it would cost 7-10X the price.

Best Regards,

Jeff in OH
 
Believe me Jeff, that if we could make these here at an affordable price we would not support another country's economy. However, look at the big picture:

1) We have over 350 employees (Americans) whose jobs were created because of the stuff we import and resell.
2) Countless UPS drivers, truck drivers, postmen, longshoremen etc... are involved in handling our products on a daily basis. We ship tens of thousands of pounds of freight per day. Indirect partial employment by us.
3) We have 1.2 million square feet of warehouse space all of which we built using American architects and American contractors and numerous US made components.
4) With the equipment we sell, there are tens of thousands of self employed Americans that were able to buy affordable equipment and put themselves into business feeding their families and stimulating the economy with the ripple effect that flows when people spend money. Very often we have found that when a person gets laid off, they will buy three or four thousand dollars worth of machines and start making cabinets, doing small machine shop type projects etc. to make some money. Quite often I have seen these small one man shops turn into major businesses. And then we sell more equipment to them!

People pile on China, but the majority of our machines still come from Taiwan. However, the price difference just between China prices and Taiwan prices is sometimes a deterrent in affordability. Imagine what US made prices would do to the equation. We do have a few very nice lathes made in Taiwan that could be used in gunsmithing (in stock). Mr Coleman, whose post appears above, has one such lathe, but they are more money and if you have the money, they are very, very nice. Bob Pastor has our new 16 x 40 lathe and is thrilled beyond his expectations.

Hi Shiraz,

Could you possibly give a short explanation as to the differences between Taiwanese/Chinese and American machine motors and electrical/electronic circuitry, as used in gunsmithing lathes and mills.

From your experience, how much of a reliability difference is there between these different sources, if any?..................Don
 
Last edited:
Don

What is relative?

You understanding reliability or actual ability to understand the big picture.

Good american metal is difficult to pay for in this market. Rest assured there are americans who want you to pay more for their american made product..

The quality aspect has been dying off. Free market economy...

Being realistic is not hard. Compete where you are...

People buy Grizzly for what they get. Who in America offer this now?

Walmart...Sears
 
Shiraz Balolia. What is a phone number that I may contact you at?
Justin
 
Justin - go ahead and PM me through this forum. I am pretty busy and will respond when I can. If you think your questions can be answered by one of our techs (Technical Service Dept.), their phone number is 570-546-9663.
Thanks.
 
Still not interested in Made in China...And I doubt it would cost 7-10X the price
Have you priced a domestic small lathe recently?

There aren't many choices. The South Bend 10x30 sells for $20k. While I am sure it is a high quality machine, I doubt it duplicates all the capabilities of the Grizzly 12x36 G4003g lathe. I think the rest of their product line is imported.

The Hardinge toolroom lathes start at about twice the price of the South Bend.

So yes, 7-10x is probably actually understating the situation. Unless you know some manufacturing secret that has escaped the notice of Hardinge and South Bend.

While I wish I could afford a new SB or Hardinge, I cannot. And buying a used American lathe doesn't really do anything to help out the American worker.
 
As The World Turns

This soap opera concerning where a lathe or any piece of machinery is made, has gotten way out of hand. The days of American Made are slipping away and it's our own fault. Greed breeds stupidity and we as a society expect our economy to move forward but the rate that it's moved has been so fast and frantic that it was inevitable, that it had to slow down. Had this been any other country, it would have crashed and that still may happen.

For some of us older readers, it wasn't that long ago that Made In Japan was a label no one wanted. Now, they produce some of the finest products in the world. Get ready to say goodbye to GM. Detroit is dead but just doesn't know it yet. The company and workers got greedy and by design ended up stupid and out of work.

We as Americans have always looked for the best deals. Clothing, Cars, Homes or Tools. Grizzly industrial has stepped up and filled a large void, in a market, that has been declining for years.

South Bend went under because they were charging two to three times as much as imported machines. One of their machines was made in Taiwan, The Turnado lathe. They got greedy and charged twice as much as Grizzly charges for the exact same lathe. By exact, I mean exact. Both lathes were produced in the same exact factory by the same exact craftsman, and yet South Bend basically tried gouging the American market.

I've said this before, on this very forum, we are fortunate to have Shiraz and his company. Where else can you actually write or speak with the owner of a large company? Try it with Sears, Walmart or any company.

Nice things cost money and some times you have to wait for them.

I for one think Shiraz is nuts for even answering some of the jokers on this forum but he's an honorable man and stands by his products 100%. No matter what the defect is or how many times it may occur, Grizzly stands ready to help. If you don't like Grizzly products, then don't buy them, It's Still A Free Country, but this public bashing should be beneath any real American
 
Gunsmith lathes and regionalism

I bought a South Bend heavy 10 in excellent condition with all kinds of tooling from a retired German-born American machinist who had added a bunch of nice touches for less than a new basic Grizzly gunsmith model. It has an inch and a half spindle hole and, since it's a belt drive, a short distance through the headstock as well as a smoother finish than a gear head - all other things being equal. There seems to me to be plenty of tight US iron and parts out there if you're willing to take some time to look. Ditto on my Bridgeport mill.
I obsessed a long time about a brand spanking new Grizzly but read a number of posts about set-up, break-in, and discontinued model support issues I am not knowledgeable enough to want to take on.
My decision was more economic than nationalistic. Still, allowing ourselves to become noncompetitive in metal production and manufacturing is a shortsighted policy with far-reaching consequences I foresee will come back to haunt us when we truly need the capability and our production facilities have been sold for scrap. I'd bet too that the four-fold price difference between lathes currently produced in the US vs. those produced in Asia bears less a relationship to quality than it does to the differences in wages, health care benefits, and productivity of the people who make them.
 
Back
Top