Gulf Coast Region Proposal For Slight Change In Varmint For Score

jackie schmidt

New member
I have talked to our Region Director, Scott Hunter, and he is willing to entertain a motion that when the NBRSA votes on the final rule for its version of 'Varmint for Score", there would be a slight change in the way the scoring is done.... That being, that the "x" will only count as an "x" when the shooter wipes out the dot.

The reasoning behind this is as more and more shooters take up the score game, the vast majority of matches will be won by a tie breaker. With the current best edge "x", it is quite common for quite a few shooters to hit 20+ "x's". As many know, many of our great "x" counts are the result of many shots just barely touching. By requiring that the "x" actually be wiped out, the degree of difficulty in the game would be enhanced, and the shooter who could actually hit the closest to the center of the "bullseye" would have be rewarded.

When we first proposed Varmint for Score last year as a Registered NBRSA Format, many veteran Group Shooters complained that shooting score with a real Benchrest Rifle under the current system was simply too easy. Of course, many of the shooters saying this had never sat down and tried to hit that dot 50 times, (Grand Agg).

To see the difference that wiping out the "x" would make, take a look at some of your aggs. I looked at my targets from the last match at Lake Charles, where I hit 33 "x's in the Grand Agg, and by the wipeout system, I would have only hit 18. That is a BIG difference.

If the NBRSA should decide to institute Varmint for Score, we need to get it right the first time. Benchrest should be difficult. The attention to detail and excellence that is required in Benchrest should be reflected in the degree of difficulty to win. By simply requiring that the "x" be wiped out in order to be counted as such, the degree of difficulty is greatly increased.

Once something is voted on and put into play, it is VERY difficult to change. Especially when records are involved. If this is to happen,it needs to happen in the beginning of official NBRSA sanctioning.

As a note, this has nothing to do with the scoring system in HBR. Varmint for Score and HBR are two entirely separate disciplines. And, it has nothing to do with the way IBS does things, as the organizations are totally separate.

In truth, this proposal will not change anything, because, at this time, there are no official NBRSA rules to change, as the class is be shot on a probationary basis. The NBRSA has an opportunity to make the degree of difficulty involved in Varmint for Score worthy to be sanctioned by the NBRSA.......JACKIE
 
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By requiring that the "x" actually be wiped out, the degree of difficulty in the game would be enhanced...

Jackie,
You probably remember a thread from about a year ago about different VFS scoring systems. I was, and still am, in favor of making the game a bit more difficult, while a number of others like it the way it is in IBS. I am curious why you would propose "worst edge" scoring of X's only. Why not use "worst edge" for 10's, etc., too?

Under "best edge" rules, it takes some really bad conditions, or being seriously asleep at the wheel, not to score 250 at 100 yards. NSBRA has the opportunity to change this, too. 200 yards is, of course, another story, but uniform "worst edge" scoring wouldn't hurt there either.

Cheers,
Keith
 
I could add to making VFS more appealing not just for 30 cal. shooters. Score all targets as if they were shooting 30 cal.. Use a 22, 6mm etc. plug with a 30 cal. ring attached. I love VFS but its not advantageous for me to gear up for a full 30 cal. rig and paraphernalia. If you drop a point you can get it back by wiping out 1 X on the same target and that will be a one time thing per yardage.
 
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Like the "wipeout" for the X dot suggestion. I think it makes it a lot easier for the scorer and would eliminate so many tie breaker recounts as well. I think keeping it simple and requiring X dot wipeouts to count as an "X" is enough.

Virg
 
Score it however you want, the best shooters will still win, last year I remember Randy R, saying he was at a shoot and just for fun the scored it "worst edge" as well as the current way, he said the leader board didn't change.

I think it would be more of a challenge for the refs.

No matter how you do it I just want to shoot, somebody can tell me if I won or lost when its all over.
 
Worst Edge Scoring

Would the implementation of worst edge scoring negate the 30cals performance advantage and resurrect the 6 & 22 in score competition?
 
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Francis, I believe that I am right in saying that IBS does not count wipeouts for anything but records. They aren't considered at all in scoring at the range level.

Jackie, One of the reasons I like score shooting is the ease of putting on a match. Clubs can have 3 relays of shooters at 2 yardages all in 1 day, which means more shooting for the buck without having to spring for motel rooms and such. Two yardages will almost certainly do away with the chance of a tie for the grand agg but there is the VERY slight chance of a tie between shooters with 25x's at 100. Worst edge scoring will penalize anyone shooting a 30, even if only because of cost per round and more recoil. How many 250-25x aggs have been fired so far in NBRSA? Until multiple 25x targets are being shot with any regularity at all, I don't see a fault in the way the IBS shoots score.....then the targets can be made smaller and all else left alone. If it ain't broke.....JMHO---Mike Ezell
 
If the VFS ain't enough of a challenge, jump in with the Hunter guys. I noticed they shot some reasonably impressive scores.
 
Wipeout for an X

Jackie, I understand your proposal and it is probably a good solution to the number of x ties that are being shot. The one issue that I see is that it will be difficult to relate an NBRSA score to an IBS score. I fully understand that there are no ties between the two organizations but it is nice to be able to look at scores shot at an IBS match and directly relate them to scores shot in an NBRSA match. As a fairly new VFS competitor, I like to be able to relate my scores to those shot by some of the more experienced VFS shooters. That mostly means comparing to scores shot at an IBS match.

Either scoring method will most likely not change standings often if at all and your method would not bother me at all other than the above.

And Pete, those hunter guys are tough! I don't think I want to mess with any of them.:)

Joe
 
jackie ...

I believe implementing the suggestion would just continue the driving of a wedge between the NBRSA and the IBS.

I'm in favor of blending the two organization into one, vice separating them further.

Not that many 250 - 25X scores shot each year.

I am a member of both governing bodies and have been for some time. I'm looking for the day when there will be just one.

I believe the IBS rules, as written today, should be adopted for both organizations.

I'm opposed to the proposal. Art :)
 
I believe implementing the suggestion would just continue the driving of a wedge between the NBRSA and the IBS.

I'm in favor of blending the two organization into one, vice separating them further.

Not that many 250 - 25X scores shot each year.

I am a member of both governing bodies and have been for some time. I'm looking for the day when there will be just one.

I believe the IBS rules, as written today, should be adopted for both organizations.

I'm opposed to the proposal. Art :)

In the IBS the only time wipe outs are counted is for a tie breaker for a record of 250-25 x's and "x amount of wipeouts". And I believe wipe outs are only counted by the records commitee. Now here's another thought you NBRSA guys might think about... add the two extra ten rings on the sighter target that the IBS did a few years back. Big help for VFS shooters that tear up the ten ring on the sighter. Blending the 2 org's will not happen, but scoring and shooting similar matches under similar rules should be the case. I think if you check with Joe Entriken you'll find that on average 3 or 4 250-25x's are fired each year.
 
Would the implementation of worst edge scoring negate the 30cals performance advantage and resurrect the 6 & 22 in score competition?

Worst edge scoring would favor the .22 as best edge scoring favors the .30.:eek:

Wipeouts are used by the records committee only.

I know of only 1 match where multiple 25X targets were shot and the Creedmore rule goes to the warmup match to determine final placing.


If you look back 10 years ago when everyone shot the PPC, the scores haven't changed that dramatically. The 30BR has given the illusion that anyone shooting it can win. The best shooters still win.:D

And finally, how do you define "wipeout???" Are you going to saddle the scorer with another burden??? How many 25X targets have been shot in NBRSA that this has become such a burning issue????

Shoot 6 power if you want a challenge.:eek:
 
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I really don't care how they are scored the best shooters will win. If you go to worst edge scoring then everyone is going to be whining about them damn 22's and 17's having an unfair advantage and then everyone will be building 22's and 17's( should make the gunsmiths happy) This thing has been beat to death every year for the last 5-6 yrs at least. The only thing I've got to say on this is, anyone that thinks VFS is so damn easy has obviously never shot a VFS match, no one has ever shot a 250-25x with 25 wipeouts in the history of the game.
 
Inertia will make it hard to get anything evolutionary instituted.

The Air Gun BR target has an 1/8" circle that is the 10 ring. Wiping this ring out is an X. It's not overly difficult to have a high score but typically the X count is pretty low, say 8 to 10 x for a high 240 score [ ie 248 249 ]. This is with best edge scoring, 25 yds, outdoors.

It would be hard to argue that the 100 yd CF score target is a bit too easy to shoot a 250 on, especially with a 30. Count the dot as the 10 ring and a wipeout as the X and it would be much more difficult. It would also make a 6mm completely obsolete to the point where you could create a completely separate 6mm class. Hmm, would this be bad? I could bring out my 6mm if I wanted to and be competitive. This would allow me to save my 30 for the group matches :)

Of course this would be revolutionary. If getting something evolutionary instituted is going to be hard then something revolutionary would be impossible. Still, it would be intriguing to have a DIFFICULT target and also a separate 6mm class.
 
On trying to fix an un-broken situation:

To date, no one has shot a perfect target in IBS. I think Al Weaver has shot 20 Wipeopuuts but until there are 25 shot, there has not been a perfect target shot.

For those Groupers who think VFS is too easy I recommend that you allow yoursself to soil your reputation and try a VFS match and see if you can shoot the 25 Wipeouts. I think you might find it to be a more challenging game than you believe it to be.

Personally I don't see any problem with the current Creedmore System for breaking tied scores. What difference can it make as long as the winners can be determined? I am aware that one of the RF Orgs has Worst Edge. I wonder if that system killed their attendence?

I don't think the scoring system will make a lot of difference. As someone pointed out earlier, the winners won't change much. If it goes to center scoring, folks will start shooting the .222 again perhaps.

A solution for those guys who can't seem to get beyond a 6MM is to use the LV class and make it 6MM or smaller. That -a-way the Groupers can show the 30 Cal. folks just what perfection is all about but keep in mind, there is no Agging Back In to a Score match :rolleyes:
 
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Francis, with all due respect that is not the case. In a regular match more than one 25X would tie. The wipe out is only used to determine records, it is not a tie breaker.

As it is written now in IBS, the wipe out count is the tie breaker if everything else is the same after five matches..
 
Joe, ties like 2-24-X's are broken by creedmore. In an IBS match two 25X's are tied. The wipeout is not used to break the match tie. --Greg

Jackie, I understand your proposal and it is probably a good solution to the number of x ties that are being shot. The one issue that I see is that it will be difficult to relate an NBRSA score to an IBS score. I fully understand that there are no ties between the two organizations but it is nice to be able to look at scores shot at an IBS match and directly relate them to scores shot in an NBRSA match. As a fairly new VFS competitor, I like to be able to relate my scores to those shot by some of the more experienced VFS shooters. That mostly means comparing to scores shot at an IBS match.

Either scoring method will most likely not change standings often if at all and your method would not bother me at all other than the above.

And Pete, those hunter guys are tough! I don't think I want to mess with any of them.:)

Joe
 
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