Glues for Gluing actions to stocks

N

ned kelly

New member
G'day all,
I'm reasonably proficient at bedding actions, but I've never glued an action to a stock, not even accidentally!
I've assumed you do a regular bedding job (I'm going to do my LBRP Stolle Panda and a BAT DS RB RP Reject into new stocks) then rough it up a bit and then glue it in.
Any advice you all could offer would be greatly appreciated and any info on the bedding job that helps to do a glue in easier. would also be great.
Also preferred glues that everyone uses. If it exists, I'd also like a glue that can allow for easy removal (I'm self-taught stock maker, so want to trial different designs every now and then)
I use Devcon for bedding and make my own pillars etc to suit my stocks (as you do).
Many thanks for any help.
Regards Geoff W
Victoria, Australia
 
ned kelly said:
G'day all,
I'm reasonably proficient at bedding actions, but I've never glued an action to a stock, not even accidentally!
I've assumed you do a regular bedding job (I'm going to do my LBRP Stolle Panda and a BAT DS RB RP Reject into new stocks) then rough it up a bit and then glue it in.
Any advice you all could offer would be greatly appreciated and any info on the bedding job that helps to do a glue in easier. would also be great.
Also preferred glues that everyone uses. If it exists, I'd also like a glue that can allow for easy removal (I'm self-taught stock maker, so want to trial different designs every now and then)
I use Devcon for bedding and make my own pillars etc to suit my stocks (as you do).
Many thanks for any help.
Regards Geoff W
Victoria, Australia
Click to expand...

JB Weld - I actually paint a thin coat in with a small art paint brush. (You can get it at Bunnings or Mitre 10)
It is black in colour, so might not suit some of your nice timber stocks, unless you are hiding the glue line.

As long as you clean the action properly it won’t be coming out unless you heat it.

When you want it to come out - I use a cylinder heater around 1/2” in diameter and 6” long, insert where bolt goes and around 2minutes later it’s ready to be popped out. You can of course use the traditional iron but this is quicker and heats more uniform.

BTW I use the Aussie bedding compound - Arma grout. He also has the dyes - Black, brown etc

Cheers
Michael
 
I bought a box of 100 "acid brushes" a long time ago. I use one of these and use a scissor and cut off about half off the bristles. That makes it stiffer and works much better for me spreading around the thick epoxy.
 
G'day All,
thanks for the info, but I noticed at the local hardware chain there are many JB Weld products.
Any particular one or just the regular JB Weld?
Many thanks, Geoff
 
Just offering an opinion.......

For many years I have used Devcon Plastic Steel (or Aluminum) - the 16 hour cure, for all of my bedding. It is an exceptional (but expensive) product. I bed with the putty, and glue in with the liquid version (less viscous than the putty - applied in a thin even coating with a very short bristle brush to the original cured and cleaned bedding surface).

For most epoxies (especially this product) proper measurement is VERY important. I use a scale, and very thoroughly mix the parts. Too little resin and the product gets brittle, too little catalyst and the product stays gummy (or at least more flexible).

I use carnauba wax as a release agent (I purchased it years ago from a shop that made Corvette parts). I apply it just like car wax - it will dry and haze, then I buff it out to a very thin shiny layer. I use a synthetic modeling clay to fill any recesses or voids that could capture the action or create air pockets.

I bed in one homogenous step, with the pillars (if I use them) fixed and torqued to the action with the same torque settings I intent to use the rifle with. Of course, the pillars have no release agent - while the action and components do. After a full 24 hour cure in at least 70 degree F conditions, I remove the action screws and pop the barreled action out. After the excess is cleaned up, its complete.

If I glue the barreled action in, I use solvent to thoroughly clean any residual release agent from the bedding and oil from the action, and use Devcon liquid as mentioned to secure them.

Hope that helps some, all the best to all of you - have a great summer!

kev
 
Just remember that when doing a glue in, all the screw holes and other cavities that are normally filled with modeling clay during a regular bedding job to prevent lock in, will need to be addressed. Otherwise even heating the action wont get it out of the stock.
 
I know a lot of smiths use plain old 24 Hour Areldite to glue actions in.. It's strong and reasonably runny enough to work well on a pre-bedded stock.. It also breaks down very easily over about 120deg C so is easy to remove..
The bigger question is why glue it in in the first place? For the life of me i cannot understand why people insist on doing it.. A proper alloy pillar bedding job is 100% just as good if done correctly, and facilitates easy removal of the action for trigger maintenance or re-barreling.

Cheers
Lee
 
Leeroy said:
The bigger question is why glue it in in the first place? For the life of me i cannot understand why people insist on doing it.. A proper alloy pillar bedding job is 100% just as good if done correctly, and facilitates easy removal of the action for trigger maintenance or re-barreling.

Cheers
Lee
Click to expand...

I have exactly the same question and would like to hear the logic behind this approach to bedding an action?

* doggie *
 
Leeroy and Doggie,

from the standpoint of a professional building winning rifles, simply put a proper pillar bedding job costs $500USD more time and leaves in the chance for the customer to pus it all up costing the pro even more. gluing is cheap, easy and deadly effective. Gluing easily turns the barreled action and stock into a unit.

As far as even a brilliant pillar bed job being "just as good"....... if that were always true gluing and screwing wouldn't be a thing.

I will say this, making a pillar-bedded 338L shoot is orders of magnitude harder than making a PPC/BR rig competitive.

It all makes sense when you watch a slo-mo vid of the gun trying to rip itself apart upon firing.
 
Leeroy said:
The bigger question is why glue it in in the first place? For the life of me i cannot understand why people insist on doing it.. A proper alloy pillar bedding job is 100% just as good if done correctly, and facilitates easy removal of the action for trigger maintenance or re-barreling. Cheers Lee
Click to expand...

Lee, I agree completely.

I wonder how many 'bad' barrels and scopes have been replaced over the years when the actual cause was a poorly done glue in? Whenever I hear a shooter talking about a glued-in BR rig that's never shot well (no matter how many barrels and scopes it's had on), it's the action that finally gets the blame....because the bedding can't be checked. There's a huge amount of Benchrest Urban Legend that convinces people that if it's a glue it, it has to be good.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Another factor is that many actions designed to be glue-ins don't easily lend themselves to being converted to a bolt in. Many take the easy way out and use the rear tang as the recoil lug....which can be problematic depending on the tang shape and stock. A forward mounted 700-style lug is a good way to go but causes other 'convenience' issues relative to barrel changes unless a fair amount of work is done. IMO, the best situation is the integral forward lug like the Kelbly Kodiaks and Panda F-Class actions have. Prior to the F-Class Pandas being produced, we did forward Kodiak-style lug conversions on all our Pandas. I've attached a pic of several of mine done this way by Stan Ware. I know that Alan Warner also did many of these.

Not really what the thread is about but some food for thought, anyway.

Good shootin'. :) -Al

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Good shootin'. Al
 
G'day All,
Thanks to the late contributors, the reason for wanting to glue the action in, is because one is a Benchrest Stolle panda (no recoil lug) and the other is also a BR action, a BAT DS, which I want to use my old BR barrels for varminting and also look at a possible set up for F class where I doubt just a bedding job would be suitable for a 7mmSAUM/284W or a 308W without gluing it in as well.
The idea of adding a recoil lug to the Stolle has merit and maybe offloading the BR Stolle for a F class Panda may be a better idea as well.
My thoughts are if there is no recoil lug, a glue in makes more sense than relying on just the rear tang for recoil force transmission. A nice full contact glue interface should provide more than enough strength (shear) to do the job.
Many thanks all the same for the ideas.
Regards Geoff
 
A comment from an old has been... Prior to 2005 I talked with many if not most of the winning shooters, the vast majority used glue in's..
 
pat b. said:
a comment from an old has been... Prior to 2005 i talked with many if not most of the winning shooters, the vast majority used glue in's..
Click to expand...
had fred sinclair glue y lee six stock in 1979 still holding sold it to a fellow in va. Who shot in canada came thru. Wilox pa' o rte; 219 shot in london for yrss'
 
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