Give the NBRSA Direstors and ranges some feedback on your favorite Nationals format!

JerrySharrett

JerrySharrett

Senile Member
The earlier group nationals was;

Monday UL100
Tuesday UL200
the remainder of the shoot was all varmint/sporter classes with HV100 and HV200 being on adjacent days so some of the older shooters who wanted to shoot HV only could come shoot.

The upcoming NBRSA Nationals format is as Woody posted it is;

Mon: UNL 100
Tue: SPT 100 - LV 100
Wed: HV 100 - 1st half of awards, NBRSA General Membership meeting (IBS does their Powder Puff here)
Thu: UNL 200
Fri: LV 200 - SPT 200
Sat: HV 200 - 2nd half of awards

IMO, this format is not as desirable for several reasons.

What would you like to see and try to consider the host range as well as all the subgroups.


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The only problem that I see Jerry, is the ranges having to move from 100yds on Monday UNL night to 200yds for Tuesday's UNL, and then to 100yds on Tuesday night for the LV SP HV, then back to 200yds for the LV SP HV. Now don't misunderstand me, I do not shoot UNL, and I do not know what the answer is, but as I see it, it becomes a logistic problem for the range. Not everyone can afford to take a week off, and then work 3, 12 hour days, changing target frames. I know at Holton the work starts at 7:00am in the morning and ended at 7:00pm in the evening with the target crew picking up the garbage, ect. What the answer is? I do not know. Sorry But I have to walk the dog and me, EH!!!!!!!!!
 
Bill Gammon said:
The only problem that I see Jerry, is the ranges having to move from 100yds on Monday UNL night to 200yds for Tuesday's UNL, and then to 100yds on Tuesday night for the LV SP HV, then back to 200yds for the LV SP HV. Now don't misunderstand me, I do not shoot UNL, and I do not know what the answer is, but as I see it, it becomes a logistic problem for the range. Not everyone can afford to take a week off, and then work 3, 12 hour days, changing target frames. I know at Holton the work starts at 7:00am in the morning and ended at 7:00pm in the evening with the target crew picking up the garbage, ect. What the answer is? I do not know. Sorry But I have to walk the dog and me, EH!!!!!!!!!
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I'd be hard pressed to find the dog, EH. ;) lol
Sorry Bill, I just couldn't pass that one up.

Dan Honert
 
I think that the new format is as close to perfect as you can get. Only one flag change and varying levels of activity intensity. I look at it this way. 1st day UNL 80% activity, 2nd day SP/LV 100%, 3rd day HV 50%, 4th day 80%, 5th day 100% and last day 50% and on the road by 1 PM. HV 200 on Saturday is the perfect finish to a great week of shooting!

After all, it is the NBRSA 4 gun Nationals.
 
UNL/HV on Consecutive Days

I would like to see UNL and HV held as complete aggregates on back-to-back days so I can shoot one or both complete grand aggregates, since I would usually rather not shoot the entire National match.

Although I'm certainly not offended over the current course of fire, understanding that my desires are purely selfish - and that the current setup is convenient for the flag setting and range crew...and probably a majority of the shooters.

On the other hand, maybe more shooters would be attracted to benchrest shooting and the National matches if they had the opportunity to shoot and complete a grand aggregate without having to take eight or more days off of work.

Greg Walley
Kelbly's Inc.
 
Greg Walley said:
I would like to see UNL and HV held as complete aggregates on back-to-back days so I can shoot one or both complete grand aggregates, since I would usually rather not shoot the entire National match.

Although I'm certainly not offended over the current course of fire, understanding that my desires are purely selfish - and that the current setup is convenient for the flag setting and range crew...and probably a majority of the shooters.

On the other hand, maybe more shooters would be attracted to benchrest shooting and the National matches if they had the opportunity to shoot and complete a grand aggregate without having to take eight or more days off of work.

Greg Walley
Kelbly's Inc.
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According to what I read in the on-line rules the Varmint Nationals and the Unlimited Nationals are two separate events. Have the rules changed?


P 23 and P24;

" The Unlimited Class Nationals shall be held for 2 days and will start on SUNDAY or MONDAY (at the discretion of the Range)
preceding the Varmint/Sporter Nationals.

The Varmint/Sporter Class Nationals will be held for 4 days, WEDNESDAY THROUGH SATURDAY; Sporter and Light Varmint on WEDNESDAY and THURSDAY; and Heavy Varmint on FRIDAY and SATURDAY. "

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Last year was the first time I'd shot the new format. Shooting the UL on Monday and Tuesday as we did before will flat wear you out moving rail guns and rotating benches. Having the few days spread between the UL 100 and UL 200 gave time to recuperate from the work involved moving benches. Shooting all of the 100 yard events first and then all the 200 yard events made for one flag change making less work on those setting flags as well as the host club setting up the target frames. For me personally, it doesn't make me any difference in what order it's shot or whether the flags have to be changed more than once. I'm there for the whole week normally and will shoot it however it's scheduled. A lot of what has been done has been done for the comfort of the shooters and for the convenience of the host range. To add another kink to this discussion, take a look at the number of junior shooters at the Nationals. There is a trophy for top junior shooter at the Nationals. You see very few shooting it anymore. The reason behind this is that the Nationals has been moved to September or October to give us cooler temperatures than when it used to be held the last week of July. More junior shooters when the Nationals was held in the summer, less when it's held during the school year. Not many juniors can take off a week during the school year to shoot the nationals. I'd rather shoot the Nationals in September or October than Midland the last week of July. But, junior participation has been hurt because of it. So, how's that for noncommittal? Most of us are just there to shoot and the more shooting the better. The simpler the rule book the better, too. It's become too complicated over the years.
 
Jerry,

With the way the various governments of this country obey the laws as they are actually written, why would it be any surprise that the rules are ignored when it comes to this organization? Two years ago, it was decided by the directors that there would be relay rotation (i.e. a different relay shooting first each day) at the NBRSA nationals. We all know how that happened at Holton, MI last year.

It's interesting to me that you found that in the rule book. I always liked the old schedule for the nationals, as 6 days of shooting can be too long of a grind for me, especially if not shooting well, or I have other obligations. So many changes have been made at most all ranges since I started shooting. They all seem to have to do with making everything "easier". Are we really all getting that lazy? Let's shoot both 100's the same day because it's "easier". Now we don't have to reset flags at all. LIke there's so much to do after a match, sit in a hotel room. Not to mention that one can't come and shoot a grand agg. in one day. When I started benchrest in the early 90's, we always shot a complete agg. in one day.

The same way with moving the Nationals to September. Heaven forbid it might be a little hot, another example of making it easier. I've tried to get my kids involved, my son has shot the IBS nationals because they're in the summer. No way my wife would want to take the kids out of school for a week to shoot.

JIm
 
Lawrence W. said:
I think that the new format is as close to perfect as you can get. Only one flag change and varying levels of activity intensity. I look at it this way. 1st day UNL 80% activity, 2nd day SP/LV 100%, 3rd day HV 50%, 4th day UNL 200 80%, 5th day LV/SP 100% and last day HV 50% and on the road by 1 PM. HV 200 on Saturday is the perfect finish to a great week of shooting!

After all, it is the NBRSA 4 gun Nationals.
Click to expand...

I am all for this scenario for a few reasons.

1- Flag setting a target frame movement
2- Also as a person that provides a full rotation of flags a hand picking them up (would be nice) as everyone else on that rotation goes home on Friday or should they pick up there flags on Friday and go home as well.
3- It helps to keep you (me) in the rhythm when shooting the rail gun for the most part.
 
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Guys and gals, the intent of this thread was to give directors a feel for what the shooters want on this current, or the old, schedule of event. Perhaps this could be thrashed out at the upcoming general meeting?

If what I read on-line is still is the rule, shouldn't it be followed, or changed, or change the rule to let the host (region, club, etc) decide?


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Lawrence W. said:
I think that the new format is as close to perfect as you can get.


After all, it is the NBRSA 4 gun Nationals.
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No Lawrence, it is not the 4 gun nationals the way I read the rules. It is the varmint/sporter nationals, and the unlimited nationals. There is an award for the 4 gun winner, but does the 4 gun winner get any HOF points?

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Looks like they forgot to update the rulebook.

JerrySharrett said:
No Lawrence, it is not the 4 gun nationals the way I read the rules. It is the varmint/sporter nationals, and the unlimited nationals. There is an award for the 4 gun winner, but does the 4 gun winner get any HOF points?

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You are right in that the rule book needs to be updated to the new format as recently approved by the directors.

HOF and the NBRSA are not affiliated other than using various 1st place finishes from the NBRSA Nationals as a criteria for HOF points.
 
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I personally think the rotation schedule for both organizations are fine. Shoot all the 100 yards first and then the 200 yards. It gets very tiring setting flags nearly every day as we did with the old schedule. People who complain about this are not the ones who are bringing flags and setting them. I also believe you will not find a range that doesn't like current schedules better. It makes no sense whatsoever to rotate yardages back-and-forth like we did in the past. It's hard on the people who set flags and it's hard on the folks that are running the match to have to move the backers and target frames moved back-and-forth. - i I talked s couple of folks that run national events and they said if they were forced to go back to the old format they would not hold any more national Evens

When you get to the national meeting. I think you'll hear that The majority of the shooters are very happy with the rotation schedule.

Bart
 
Bart said:
I personally think the rotation schedule for both organizations are fine. Shoot all the 100 yards first and then the 200 yards. It gets very tiring setting flags nearly every day as we did with the old schedule. People who complain about this are not the ones who are bringing flags and setting them. I also believe you will not find a range that doesn't like current schedules better. It makes no sense whatsoever to rotate yardages back-and-forth like we did in the past. It's hard on the people who set flags and it's hard on the folks that are running the match to have to move the backers and target frames moved back-and-forth. - i I talked s couple of folks that run national events and they said if they were forced to go back to the old format they would not hold any more national Evens

When you get to the national meeting. I think you'll hear that The majority of the shooters are very happy with the rotation schedule.

Bart
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For the sake of convenience of the range crews and flag setters Bart has a good point. Issue is, the range crew and the flag setters are not the only consideration.

There probably isn't a perfect format considering everyone, non UL shooters, older shooters who only shoot HV, etc. I still think the issue needs to be relooked and then either go by the written rulebook or change it. After all, why even bother with a rulebook if it is not going to be followed.


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Jerry, do you have the latest rule book? Can't go necessarily by what is online as the rule book. Just depends upon whether it's the latest update or not. The current rule book is a loose leaf notebook type instead of the bound book type used previously. Mine is about a thousand miles from where I am this weekend or I'd look at it. The biggest problem that I see with the Nationals is that the ranges that put it on are volunteers doing it for the love of the sport. The people who run the matches are getting older, too with several have passed away. I know of two at Kansas City who have passed away who were instrumental in having the Nationals there. The simpler it is for the host club, the better. Local matches have gone the same way making it simpler for the host club. Most matches in the Gulf Coast region are all 100 yards one day. All 200 yards the next day. Seymour is an exception to this as their target frames pivot up making them easy to set up frames. This forces the shooter to shoot both days if he wants to shoot a complete agg. Someone who is just able to shoot one day can't shoot a grand agg with that format.
 
Mike Bryant said:
Jerry, do you have the latest rule book? Can't go necessarily by what is online as the rule book. Just depends upon whether it's the latest update or not. The current rule book is a loose leaf notebook type instead of the bound book type used previously. Mine is about a thousand miles from where I am this weekend or I'd look at it. The biggest problem that I see with the Nationals is that the ranges that put it on are volunteers doing it for the love of the sport. The people who run the matches are getting older, too with several have passed away. I know of two at Kansas City who have passed away who were instrumental in having the Nationals there. The simpler it is for the host club, the better. Local matches have gone the same way making it simpler for the host club. Most matches in the Gulf Coast region are all 100 yards one day. All 200 yards the next day. Seymour is an exception to this as their target frames pivot up making them easy to set up frames. This forces the shooter to shoot both days if he wants to shoot a complete agg. Someone who is just able to shoot one day can't shoot a grand agg with that format.
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Mike I agree with much if not most of the upcoming format. The parts I don't like is 1) all the shooters having to wait around while UL 200 takes place to finish the varmint classes. The Varmint classes and the UL class are separate events, or were?? 2) Another part I don't personally like is where HV100 and HV200 are not concurrent. But then I am not the representative of all the membership and 3) if the rule I posted is still the rule, I say go by it, change it, or delete it.



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You are not looking at the current rule book.

Revised Edition No. #38 (January 2013) page 21

a. The National Unlimited, Heavy Varmint, Light Varmint and Sporter Rifle Championship

The course of fire for the National Tournament will be as follows: Monday Unlimited 100 yards, Tuesday Sporter and Light Varmint 100 yards, Tuesday Sporter and Light Varmint 100 yards, Wednesday morning Heavy Varmint 100 yards, Wednesday afternoon General Membership meeting, Thursday Unlimited 200 yards, Friday Sporter and Light Varmint 200 yards and Saturday Heavy Varmint 200 yards and it goes on.

This format was brought up at the Midland Nationals at the membership meeting and voted on and passed by the members that stayed to attend the membership meeting.

Being a Director, I volunteered to have my name put in to have the SW shooters vote for me as I have a very strong comment to our sport and the shooters. With a lot of strong minded shooters in our sport it is difficult to make everyone happy. I feel we have to take the overall look at if something will make it better for the shooters, and to make a change, it may not work for everyone but it was for the overall shooters in the organization and if it works great, if it needs to be adjusted that may also needed to be looked at after the change has been in operation for more than one nationals.

This is why we have agenda items that shooters submit to their directors and then voted on at the board meeting by each director that has received what his shooters in his region wants, but each director only has one vote so if your region wanted "A" and it only received 3 votes for and 5 against its not your directors fault it did not pass.

Shooters you are all more than welcome to put your name in the hat to run for your region's director, you get good pay, medical and all the food you can eat with dessert being all the bull you can handle.

Tom Libby
SW Director
 
Tom Libby said:
You are not looking at the current rule book.

Revised Edition No. #38 (January 2013) page 21

a. The National Unlimited, Heavy Varmint, Light Varmint and Sporter Rifle Championship

The course of fire for the National Tournament will be as follows: Monday Unlimited 100 yards, Tuesday Sporter and Light Varmint 100 yards, Tuesday Sporter and Light Varmint 100 yards, Wednesday morning Heavy Varmint 100 yards, Wednesday afternoon General Membership meeting, Thursday Unlimited 200 yards, Friday Sporter and Light Varmint 200 yards and Saturday Heavy Varmint 200 yards and it goes on.

This format was brought up at the Midland Nationals at the membership meeting and voted on and passed by the members that stayed to attend the membership meeting.

Being a Director, I volunteered to have my name put in to have the SW shooters vote for me as I have a very strong comment to our sport and the shooters. With a lot of strong minded shooters in our sport it is difficult to make everyone happy. I feel we have to take the overall look at if something will make it better for the shooters, and to make a change, it may not work for everyone but it was for the overall shooters in the organization and if it works great, if it needs to be adjusted that may also needed to be looked at after the change has been in operation for more than one nationals.

This is why we have agenda items that shooters submit to their directors and then voted on at the board meeting by each director that has received what his shooters in his region wants, but each director only has one vote so if your region wanted "A" and it only received 3 votes for and 5 against its not your directors fault it did not pass.

Shooters you are all more than welcome to put your name in the hat to run for your region's director, you get good pay, medical and all the food you can eat with dessert being all the bull you can handle.

Tom Libby
SW Director
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First Tom, thanks for putting in the time that it takes to be a Director.
This years Nationals will be the first I have been to since the new Format was adopted, so I guess I won't have an opinion until I exerience it.

But up front, I am all for anything that can make life easier for those who are willing to take the time and put forth the effort that it takes to put on Matches.
 
Nationals!

We have Arizona, St Louis, Fairchance This is what we have for ranges that have been willing to host a Nationals and we approved Holton for last years and it worked out a lot better than a lot shooters thought, due to the hard work of Bob & Nancy and crew.

Raton will not hold a nationals they do not have local workers besides it cost about $18 dollars a day per shooter out of their pocket to hold a match, Midland does not hold them anymore due to a few reasons, Kansas does not hold them.

While some of you are worried about the format etc. we may not have a range to shoot one if this keeps up. And as far as the Nationals being held when it is not as hot, take a look at the average shooters age and physical health of some of us.

SW Director
Tom Libby
 
Tom Libby said:
You are not looking at the current rule book.

Revised Edition No. #38 (January 2013) page 21

a. The National Unlimited, Heavy Varmint, Light Varmint and Sporter Rifle Championship

The course of fire for the National Tournament will be as follows: Monday Unlimited 100 yards, Tuesday Sporter and Light Varmint 100 yards, Tuesday Sporter and Light Varmint 100 yards, Wednesday morning Heavy Varmint 100 yards, Wednesday afternoon General Membership meeting, Thursday Unlimited 200 yards, Friday Sporter and Light Varmint 200 yards and Saturday Heavy Varmint 200 yards and it goes on.

change has been in operation for more than one nationals.


Shooters you are all more than welcome to put your name in the hat to run for your region's director, you get good pay, medical and all the food you can eat with dessert being all the bull you can handle.

Tom Libby
SW Director
Click to expand...


Thanks Tommy for the update. As to doing a directors job, no thanks, for a thankless job, but thank you guys for doing it.


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