free bore??????????? boat tail bullets.......

S

scott mims

Guest
boat tail bullets.......

sorry if this has been asked before. i have had chances to get on board with the boat tails but was always scared to because i see people talk about zero free bore, .045 ect ect saying some work and some dont. Billy Stevens is my smith and i could ask him but im the kind that hates asking to many questions so i dont want to get someone mad. i would like to try boat tails somewhere down the road but for the last couple of years i just buy Barts Ultras (love'em) at a match this year i bought some more from bart and he even said "do you want some boat tails?" i did but just wasnt sure................. ok to my questions :)

1) is there a special fee bore that people use to shoot a boat tail.
2) at the beginning it looked like it was 65g boat tails now its seems to be more 68g.... why
3) also the older ones was made on a .790 jacket (i think im right) now its a .8--? jacket was one better than the other.
4) is there a happy medium bore that someone can be safe to be able to use different bullets (flat base AND boat tails).
5) i have always trimmed my brass to 1.4900 or 1.4950. if i use boat tails would i need to change this

again i like the bullets i have been shooting and i get beat by MANY flatbase bullets. but now im getting beat by flat base AND boat tails.

i added this picture from a older post to make it look like i know what im talking about :):):) but those who know me knows the truth :)
 
Last edited:
Freebore

afrench said:
good question. i look forward to the responses.
Click to expand...

I have shot most with a .075 freebore. It is too much for my BT's on 790 jackets or sierra's. .045 works for all unless you get something on 750's, a real pointy/short bearing surface die, or are someone that likes a bunch of bullet in the neck. Hope this helps.
 
Since bart makes the bullets and billy does your barrels and shoots the same bullets you should really talk to them. You know theyll be more than happy to give you all the info you need. I can tell you though according to which neck you have that reamer shoots both the ultras and BT equally well.
 
Scott, when 10 of the consistent top 20 start shooting BT's exclusively I'll change to BT's. I have 4-5 brands of BT's and the only barrel I have that shoots BT's BEST is a Hart barrel I have for my rail. All the rest, over the years, on average, shot FB's most consistently. Why? My mind keeps telling me I'm not smart enough to shoot BT's.

Sometimes when you change your undies you find the old ones felt better, do you put the old ones back on? Same logic? probably not!!
 
Scott

Here you go!


1) is there a special fee bore that people use to shoot a boat tail.

I've used a .045 freebore for both Ultras, 65bts and 68 bts. So maybe the .045

2) at the beginning it looked like it was 65g boat tails now its seems to be more 68g.... why

The 65 Bt is the first boattail bullet that I came out with and it shot great! Winning most of the titles in Benchrest. However I had to develop a bullet that would compete with the 68 boattails that were on the market. Perception was a 68bt bucked the wind better.

So, I spent a lot of time and energy developing my 68bt. Benchrest shooters gravitate to bullets that win. In order for it to win I had to shoot it! Also many will go with what Billy and I are shooting. Several of us are shooting the same reamer, bullets and powder and share load info between us! You're welcome to join in!

So that is the movement from 65bt to 68bts from my perspective.

As for what I shoot its a no-win situation. If I shoot Ultras, people ask what's wrong the boattails. If I shoot 68 bts folks want to know what's wrong with the 65bts. It is what it is. Just the nature of the business.




3) also the older ones was made on a .790 jacket (i think im right) now its a .8--? jacket was one better than the other.

The 65 is made on an 790 jackets and the 68s are made on 820s. Why??? Because that's the way they shoot. Reverse that and the bullets don't work.

4) is there a happy medium bore that someone can be safe to be able to use different bullets (flat base AND boat tails).

Back to the .045 which you probably already have!

5) i have always trimmed my brass to 1.4900 or 1.4950. if i use boat tails would i need to change this again i like the bullets i have been shooting and i get beat by MANY flatbase bullets. but now im getting beat by flat base AND boat tails.i added this picture from a older post and i look at it and i do understand it.

The trim length is insignificant. Make sure they don't get too long and that they are cut square when trimmed.

Now neck tension can be an issue. Boattails don't have a pressure ring. Hot loads with V133 can push the bullets back out of the case. That's why we moved to a thicker neck 268 to hold the bullet in place. Longer trim length won't help.
 
Bart, the 65 BT Superman was....

The first BT bullets that you made that you sent to me were the 65 BT made on .790 jackets. These were and are the finest bullets that I have ever shot. If you remember those had a small pin hole or dimple in the middle of the base. You said that you would not sell them because of that dimple caused by the punch (I assume). I just wish that I could have several thousand of those Superman bullets like those in that first batch. Richard Milton, Don Geraci, and I tried them in several rifles and they were "super" in every one.

If your new 68 BT's are as good as those from several years ago, they are really something. I did not shoot a single group match last year and I haven't shot the newer ones yet, but I am hearing great things about them. Keep up the good work...... James Mock PS- I have a .025" freebore in my reamer and it is ideal for the 65 BT.
 
James M. said:
The first BT bullets that you made that you sent to me were the 65 BT made on .790 jackets. These were and are the finest bullets that I have ever shot. If you remember those had a small pin hole or dimple in the middle of the base. You said that you would not sell them because of that dimple caused by the punch (I assume). I just wish that I could have several thousand of those Superman bullets like those in that first batch. Richard Milton, Don Geraci, and I tried them in several rifles and they were "super" in every one.

If your new 68 BT's are as good as those from several years ago, they are really something. I did not shoot a single group match last year and I haven't shot the newer ones yet, but I am hearing great things about them. Keep up the good work...... James Mock PS- I have a .025" freebore in my reamer and it is ideal for the 65 BT.
Click to expand...

James!

Very high praise indeed! The 68s are pretty darn good! You need to try them!

Thank you very much!
Bart
 
Another variable that goes in the mix is the maximum case length ground into the reamer. I believe that both 1.515 and 1.525 are common. A while back, Skeetlee posted something about different manufacturers' reamers, with the same print max case length, cutting different chambers. I would think that that would also be an issue, print vs actual chamber.

Ultra story: A long time back (decade and a half) , I twisted Bart's arm and he sold me a box (100) each of his 66 and 68 grain ultras. At the time, for no particular reason, I tended to favor the 68s, and being no great shakes at tuning, tried them and went on with my search for the magic bullet. A few months back, I pulled the box of 66s out and tried them on an old barrel that had been showing some promise, since I had learned enough to do a better job of tuning for its particular needs. (I have found that for me, 5R barrels require significantly hotter loads than conventional rifling, to do their best work.) Loading at the range, doing a little exploratory tuning, the 66s were truly outstanding. They are both on .825 jackets, and I would guess that the have slightly different balance. If I had any of the 68s left, I would have compared them.
 
Boyd is correct. a JGS 1045 reamer with a .060 free bore will or is about .030 longer than the .060 free bore ppc reamer I have from kiff. Not sure why, but that's the dirt. I like the longer free bores as I can get a little more powder into my cases, plus I like the old style fowler or Watson FB bullets. They just always seem to shoot well!!
I did however recently acquired some of Barts 68gr BT bullets, and they are outstanding. Very easy to tune, and they do very well on my farm range where the wind is always blowing. I haven't shot a match with them yet, I don't believe, but I would feel very confident in doing so. Matter a fact I need to get my hands on some more. Lee
 
Boyd Allen said:
Another variable that goes in the mix is the maximum case length ground into the reamer. I believe that both 1.515 and 1.525 are common. A while back, Skeetlee posted something about different manufacturers' reamers, with the same print max case length, cutting different chambers. I would think that that would also be an issue, print vs actual chamber.

Ultra story: A long time back (decade and a half) , I twisted Bart's arm and he sold me a box (100) each of his 66 and 68 grain ultras. At the time, for no particular reason, I tended to favor the 68s, and being no great shakes at tuning, tried them and went on with my search for the magic bullet. A few months back, I pulled the box of 66s out and tried them on an old barrel that had been showing some promise, since I had learned enough to do a better job of tuning for its particular needs. (I have found that for me, 5R barrels require significantly hotter loads than conventional rifling, to do their best work.) Loading at the range, doing a little exploratory tuning, the 66s were truly outstanding. They are both on .825 jackets, and I would guess that the have slightly different balance. If I had any of the 68s left, I would have compared them.
Click to expand...

Boyd,

I would hate to think the 66 Ultra had a better balance point than the 68 Ultras. The 68 Ultra has literally won everything in Benchrest. There is no telling how many world records it's broken. I've broken 5 with it myself! All Aggreates.
Bart
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top