Flag & Wind question

[Doug Penttinen]

This might get alot of different answers but I am curious to the answers it may get...

When shooting 200 yard bench rest and I guess depending on the range and velocity : Where does the push start ? First flag ? or maybe the question should be which seems to be the most important flag or flags to watch. Which one will dictate the movement of the bullet the most.
There are I'm sure alot of varibles in this question and answer but every bit of information is ofinterest...

Thanks
Doug in Big D

 

[abintx]

Here is something I picked up from Hall of Fame inductee Thomas "Speedy" Gonzalez and archived it for future use:

60-70 Yard Flags

Speedy's nuggets of wisdom for competitors:

"Watch the 60-70 yard flags--that's where the story's told, for both 100- and 200-yard matches.

That little stretch dictates the way you've got to shoot.

Don't get obsessed with shooting ultra-small groups. Shoot steady, 'safe' groups and you'll do OK. 'Shoot not to lose' is a way to approach a match.

It's all about the Aggregate. Concentrate on the Big Trophy at the end."

 

[Vern]

Surprised there are not more posts.
I remember several years ago there was a lot of debate about the first flag vs last flag and bullet push.
I dont think that was ever resolved or proven in a satisfactory manner.

 

[Doug Penttinen]

Hey Vern

Well I guess everybody feels the same.... "Just Shoot Thru It"

There are lots of varibles to the question but I was just looking for some thoughts. Kind of like everything else in bench rest. What works for one probably won't work for another but the wind is sure the toughest part to read...
Take Care

 

[Pete Wass]

Wellllllll

There is also Mirage to consider. In some situations, mirage will eat your lunch. I have been shooting competative (Score) Benchrest around 15 years and have not yet learned how to properly read Mirage. I would love to find someone I could pay who would teach me how to deal with it.

While I would agree that the 60 to 70 yd flags are very important the one inside 25 sometimes will kick your butt also. Having said that, a friend has gone to two flags and two probes at all ranges and does quite well now that he has learned to use Mirage.

 

[Jerry H]

Based on my experiments with the smart flag, the relationship depends on the number of flags. Assuming that they are equally spaced, the approximate ratios are the following starting from the bench. 3 total flags= x, 65%x, 42%x. 5 total flags= x, 70%x, 49%x, 34%x, 24%x. 7 total flags= x, 75%x, 56%x, 42%x, 32%x, 24%x, 18%x. Clearly the first flag has the most effect on the bullets placement at the target if the same exact wind is at each flag.

 

[HovisKM]

Most need to read Mike Ratigan's book about this. There is no even ratio depending on spacing.

To answer the gentleman's question first. Every range generally has a predominate flag. Supershoot - 60-70yds. Fairchance - depends on where your at on the line. St. Louis - left side of range 60-70 yd flags, right side - close flags.

As a bullet travel downrange, it continueously slows, thus even though the bullet has less flight time to target, velocity is less so drift is incrementally more for the same distance. The bullet don't travel a straight angled line to the target in a cross wind. It travels in a arc.

Jack Neary brings up some very good tuning points in right to left and left to right wind. It was something I was told a few years back but had forgotten. His tuning class is valuable no matter what powder you shoot but is even more so if you shoot 133.

Hovis

 

[Dick Grosbier]

I remember several years ago there was a lot of debate about the first flag vs last flag and bullet push.
I dont think that was ever resolved or proven in a satisfactory manner.

Absolutely true .
A bullet pushed a certain amount near the muzzle has a larger effect because of the distance it will travel after being pushed.
Still a bullet is easier to push nearer the target because it's velocity is decreased. Which Flag matters most definitely varies from range to range also.

Dick

 

[mks]

The bullet encounters more resistance the instant it leaves the muzzle than any other time in it's flight path no matter what direction, velocity or vector the wind is blowing. If the wind is uniform and of equal value, the wind nearest the muzzle has the greatest effect on the direction the bullet travels.

On the other hand for a given wind, the angle of deflection is larger for a slower bullet. While what you say is essentially true for short range, wind at an intermediate yardage has the largest effect on the bullet for long range shooting. There is a graph in McCoy's book that shows this - one curve for short range and another for long range.

Cheers,
Keith