Flag Rotations at the Super Shoot.

J

Joe Krupa

Member
I reposted this here (from an earlier post by Ian Owen) because now is the time that Jim Kelbly is setting up the bench assignments and it may do one good to make sure they understand the dynamics of the flag rotations at the Super Shoot. Also, I believe that most experienced shooters would agree that the only time that we ever see a disagreement (and sometimes a fight) at a benchrest match is when the flags are being set. (At least that's the only time that I've seen a fight at one.)

When one invests several thousand dollars in five sets of flags and offers to have them shot over (and very often shot at), there is an expectation that those will be the flags used on that rotation. That's the convention that has developed at the Super Shoot over the past thirty-plus years.

The other shooters who ask specifically to shoot on that person's flags are expecting to use that specific type of flag. Those shooters number between twenty to thirty at the Super Shoot. When one other guy decides to set another type of flag OVER those of the flag sponsor on the SAME bench rotation, it affects quite a few other shooters; not just one. Most of the other shooters who are placed on that flag rotation get very upset when someone else unilaterally decides to put their flags on that rotation, TOO. It usually gets a little ugly.

I offer to use (and unfortunately have abused) a flag rotation to shoot over not only for myself, but also for the other twenty-plus shooters who ask Jim Kelbly to place them on my rotation so they can shoot over this specific type of flag. (I get several shot every year and they are not cheap to replace. A flag is $50 and the stands go for up to $100 each. Do the math for 25 to 30 flags.)

I will be using Smiley flags with pin wheels on the rotation that I am sponsoring. I intend to set them straight down the middle of the lane and staggered only for height. And I also intend to attach the tails on the bottom of the paddle and ensure that they don't flip up into the line of flight of the targets on either side of me.

If you don't wish to shoot over that type of flag and set-up, PLEASE ask Jim to place you on a bench rotation that has the type of flags that you like to use. It's only common courtesy.
 
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Well Said

Joe, that is a well stated, and timely post.

Also, there are often disagreements over color.

Remember at last years Nationals when the Bench Rotation just to our right had a set of flags that were the opposite color than just about every other flag on the range. We were seeing green and orange at the same time.

That is something that is rarely discussed. I was told years ago by a veteran shooter that it's green, or some variant, in the left to right, and orange, or some variant, in the right to left.

Didn't mean to step on your post, but it can be aggravating when a shooter decides to stick a set of flags in the shooting lane that is opposite of everybody elses.......jackie
 
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Joe

I understand what you are conveying here.

For those that are fortunate enough to put that kind of money out for flags and sponsor a rotation, KUDOS to you guys.

I feel it is only common courtesy to appreciate the fact that yourself and many others sponsor a rotation and accept the type of flags you are shooting over.

If a shooter is placed on a sponsored relay it is an easy fix, ONLY THE SPONSORS FLAGS will be placed at those benches, PERIOD. This should also go for all other benches, one set of flags period.

If it is a problem for certain individuals suck it up and dish out the thousands and have your own sponsorship so you can shoot over your own flags.

I shoot usually just 3 flags at 100 and non beyond 50 yards. At 200 I may throw one out there if I feel like walking that far. So if I go to a shoot and want no more than 4 flags out at 200 the only way I would get that is to sponsor my own flag rotation..... Maybe that is why I am only so so a shooter.....:rolleyes::rolleyes:

We preach any flag is better than no flags at all, SO for those of us who do not have our own arsenal of flags we have to be prepared to see many types of flags.

Again hats off to the flag bearers.

JMO

PS. Jackie the flag coloring you mention is opposite to the pics of Grahams flags on his site???????????

Calvin
 
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Are we the only country that puts the colors as we do? Don't ships and ship channels and other things have green to a specific side as well as the red? I seem to think ours are opposite to the rest of the world.
Butch
 
Thanks Joe for reminding me about putting my own flag in your flag rotation, it has taken me almost the whole year to dig my wooden duck with the twirling wings out of my lets say butt area. I want to thank you again for shoving so far in that when I pass gas the wings twirl and I have saved at least $50 dollars on toilet paper. :eek: Sure glad the whistle broke it drew to much attention.
 
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Butch

I don't know, but here in the USA, or at least Texas, it seems to be universal.

At The Bluebonnet last week end, we even commented on the fact that every flag on the range was colored the same direction. In that hard right to left, the entire place was orange, when it would reverse to the left to right, the entire world turned green.

It looked rather nice. ..........jackie
 
My last high jack

Butch Lambert said:
Are we the only country that puts the colors as we do? Don't ships and ship channels and other things have green to a specific side as well as the red? I seem to think ours are opposite to the rest of the world.
Butch
Click to expand...

Butch, if we color our flags as Jackie mentioned above we are the same as the navigation lights for marine craft. See link.

http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/imarine/recboating/images/mar_light_rose.gif

So orange is right to left, green is left to right. Similar to marine navigation.

Calvin
 
Ed Hartman used to have a couple of flags that looked like appoplectic raged Turkeys. The twirly wings were on the Turkeys butt, not in the normal wing area. I vote for them!!!
 
jerryQUOTE=CYanchycki;577706]Butch, if we color our flags as Jackie mentioned above we are the same as the navigation lights for marine craft. See link.

http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/imarine/recboating/images/mar_light_rose.gif

So orange is right to left, green is left to right. Similar to marine navigation.

Calvin[/QUOTE]

Gentlemen

Just had this conversation with a well known competitor. Depends on how you look at it. The flag is static, the wind is in motion. Bouys are static, ships are in motion. My self being new to this, i have a somewhat unique problem. I spent my life on the oceans. Port Red, Green Starboard. Red right returning, all red cans on the right on your way into port. If youve spent any time on the ocean, you will understand the dilemma. If you havent, Im not sure the CFR's on the Rules of Navigation are good justification for the current color useage.

As I have just ordered flags from Graham, I had to decide what would be the best color placement. For ME my mind associates the accepted color patern backwards. But only for an instant till I my mind pulls in the other details. Tails and arrows

I can really see how a set of opposite colors at a shoot will serious screw with everyone else. So I have had to come to a different way of thinking about it. It seems to be working and in time may become natural. I just look at the flag is a ship, and thats the way its pointing. Not the way the wind is blowing.

My point being, is that to change the accepted practice would be selfish on my part, though there is no rule that says i shouldnt. Ill gladly trade the help Im getting from the knowledgable, for a little initial discomfort.

Now lets see if I can keep the ship in the channel a year from now :D
Ethan
 
Dear Tom,

Thanks for reminding ME that I need to go through my collection of exotic lawn ornaments to bring down to Kelbly's. I specifically have five large orange balls, several windmills, plus the large clown with its arms waving back and forth covering the slot where the golf ball goes on the 18th hole. I almost got arrested when I retrieved that one from the local putt-putt golf course.

And don't forget that you will need FIVE wooden ducks with the twirling wings out of my lets say butt area in order to cover the entire rotation throughout the day.

Tom, can I borrow your hat at the Super Shoot? I have a date one of those evenings.
 
Butch Lambert said:
Are we the only country that puts the colors as we do? Don't ships and ship channels and other things have green to a specific side as well as the red? I seem to think ours are opposite to the rest of the world.
Butch
Click to expand...

Butch, since I'm from down under when I made my first set of flags I followed what I saw in Precision Shooting, when I turned up at the match the colours were opposite to what every one else in NZ had. So I just re-made my flags to conform to the NZ and Aussie configuration.

But the flags I sell in the US and will be bringing to the Supershoot are the same configuration to the US flags.

I never did figure out why there was a difference between the US and the NZ/Aussie configuration, but I can say it is more confusing to have opposite colouring of flags set up in view at the same time.....Ian
 
Ian, just to be a

Ian_Owen said:
Butch, since I'm from down under when I made my first set of flags I followed what I saw in Precision Shooting, when I turned up at the match the colours were opposite to what every one else in NZ had. So I just re-made my flags to conform to the NZ and Aussie configuration.

But the flags I sell in the US and will be bringing to the Supershoot are the same configuration to the US flags.

I never did figure out why there was a difference between the US and the NZ/Aussie configuration, but I can say it is more confusing to have opposite colouring of flags set up in view at the same time.....Ian
Click to expand...

contrarian, my feeling on flag colors is they should be what YOU want. Quite frankly, I want my flags to be different than everything on the field. That way there is NO speculation when I look down-field. This "crap" about all the same is just that "crap".
 
It is a heck of a lot easier

and at the longer yardages where being able to see what is happening on the entire field, if the colors were all the same. It would be easier to see changes happening.

Personally I think it is childish to take hard positions on demanding individual freedom on flags. Everything else beyond the Firing Line is controled by RULES, why not FLAGS?

Flag Choice wouldn't pass the "Reasonable Man" test. A reasonable man should be able to agree that a sea of flags all one color is easier to see than individual colors.
 
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