First record shot high/low

bryan

bryan

Bryan Armatys
Ratigan's book discusses the first shot going hi and the need to follow it. I had that happen several times today, and dummied up and did not hold for the rest of the group. I did, however, have a first shot that landed low and I DID hold for the rest and it worked. Any clues to why this happens and how to prevent it? (Farley rest)
Bryan
 
I have had this same problem. I end up having to chase the 1st shot. If your problem is the same as mine it is a bag problem. Mine was the front bag. I make it a habbit of moving the gun back & forth several times when going from sighter to record. I hope this helps. russell m
 
Find it and fix it

Russell determined it was his front bag, another guy swapped rear bags and I had to wait for it to go away on its own. Whatever....fix it before you go to another match. This stuff is too expensive and demanding to live with any such distraction.
 
bryan ...

bryan said:
Ratigan's book discusses the first shot going hi and the need to follow it. I had that happen several times today, and dummied up and did not hold for the rest of the group. I did, however, have a first shot that landed low and I DID hold for the rest and it worked. Any clues to why this happens and how to prevent it? (Farley rest) Bryan
Click to expand...

I believe what you're describing is discussed in Chapter 24, Benchrest Strategy, pages 236 to 237, under "Never fire the first shot to see where it will go." Third paragraph.

About half way into that paragraph he says: " Many hours have been spent trying to figure out what causes the problem and how to stop this from happening. The problem seems related to changing how the gun sits in the bags from the sighter to the record. .... What's important is your ability to recognize when this happens and what to do when it happens. ..... When you recognize the first shot is high and a bit left, you can hold up and left the amount needed assuming the flags are still ok and continue shooting. I've shot several official screamer groups in registered tournaments doing this very thing, without going back to the sighter to confirm."

He also goes on to describe the situation where the first shot hits low, saying that it's abnormal and why the above technique shouldn't be applied.

He also describes Faye Boyer, Wayne Campbell, and a US World Team member encountering these problems and his thoughts. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Try raising your front rest on its feet..similar to the F class shooters..screw your 3 support legs down until your front rest base is at least 1 1/2" above the bench...then place a spacer under your rear bag if needed to get the scope on target...shoot several shots on the sighter and move up to the record bull and see what happens...you may be pleasantly surprised..;)
 
Problems

Take all the change out of your right pocket and put it in your left pocket,
hold your tongue just right,turn your hat around backwards and jerk the trigger.
Always works for me..GOOD LUCK.;)
 
That is my

Jhart said:
Take all the change out of your right pocket and put it in your left pocket,
hold your tongue just right,turn your hat around backwards and jerk the trigger.
Always works for me..GOOD LUCK.;)
Click to expand...

take on it.

I REALLY BELIEVE that unless you can have a set up and have one of the Hall of fame Shooters or one of the shooters who is a consistent winner try your setup I will NEVER know.

I go out there with my HIGH priced gear and have fun. Shoot a screamer here or there and call it a day.

Calvin
 
Shot high...

Hey Bryan,


Do OK at the Best in West...?

Gosh, first time in 7 years I missed this shoot... Oh well.... Work and Family.

Well, I know this... When I DON'T make sure my stock tape is good and slippery and my stocks with out silicone stock tape are not polished up good with paste wax, I get these symptoms >>more often<<.

But could still be a rear/front bag issue.

But as Russell said, I too work the gun a few times in the bags to settal in on the record... Especially in the HUMIDITY...!

Have had this issue in High and Dry Raton with VV133....This when I knew it was bag issues...It wasn't...... :eek:

Take care Bryan,
cale
 
eww ...

eww1350 said:
Try raising your front rest on its feet..similar to the F class shooters..screw your 3 support legs down until your front rest base is at least 1 1/2" above the bench...then place a spacer under your rear bag if needed to get the scope on target...shoot several shots on the sighter and move up to the record bull and see what happens...you may be pleasantly surprised..;)
Click to expand...

There is an 8 inch difference from the center of the 100 yard target's sighter bull to the center of the record bull. Add another 1 1/2 inches, if your shooting the left or right lower sighter bulls and the difference becomes 9 1/2 inches.

What is the 1 1/2" OR 1" added leg height (since most folks have at least 1/2" of height initially positioned above the base) doing to improve that ratio and lessen the cause of the movement upwards ???

Where is the surprise coming from ???

What can we expect to see if we're shooting up hill or down hill ??? :)
 
abintx..I recently had this same anomilie and was just resigned to shooting on the record bull without sighters..(risky business)...a friend came to one of our matches and set up his rifle with a McMillan MBR stock on his SEB rest and screwed his rest legs way in which raised his base up to where one could pass his hand under the base of the rest (get the picture?)...then he placed a rubber spacer under his rear bag to get his rifle level and on target..he set in an almost upright position...looked strange...He then proceeded to kick our butts with his 30BR...I thought that his gun and skills were making him out shoot us...then the next match I decided to try setting up my SEB rest in the same manner...and guess what my problem (high shot on record bull) went away...Now what is the physics of the resolution.???
I don't know, but it don't cost a damn thing to try, and if it worked for me..it might work for someone else...But if you have the solution already then give Ratigan a call maybe he can get it into print on his next book..:rolleyes:
 
In the beginning........

When I first started shooting BR, I had a cheap Hart pedistal and a Ron Hoehn windage top, and used a soft rear bag that I could squeeze with my small hands. I slid the rifle back and forth for windage. It worked well, but being an impressionable shooter, I soon bought a speed screw, then a Farley, then a Dodd, then another Farley....................
I'm about ready to look for another Hart or Sinclair pedistal, or just tighten up the Farley and use it without the joystick.
I really think the relationship of the front bag to stock changes enough when going from the sighter to the record position to cause problems with a Farley OR other rests with a speed screw.
Back to the basics?
BA
 
If the cause of the shot going high has something to do with changing from the sighter to the record, why don't the subsequent shots follow?

Way too many are shooting lights out with the "stick" rests for that to be the culprit.
 
In my case, I've found it to be more of a relationship between the bags and rifle angle. When I move from sighter to score and then up, therfore changing the angle of the rifle in relationship to the bags I have this problem. I simply slide the rifle back and forth in the bags three or four times and fire. For me, this gets the bottom of the stock and bags back on the same plane. This works for me very well and I've eliminated the POI change. Like Ratigan says, there are those that have this problem and know it and there are those that have this problem and dont know it.
 
Ok

I can see the line of thinking now...but why doesn't everybody have this problem always?
 
good thread

This drove me crazy on my last match. My sighters were great, I knew it had to be in the bags just no idea what to try next. My first record shot was 1/4" to 3/8" high of the next 4 shots. On the last target I held low for the first shot then the next 4 droped in for my only good target of the day. I was shooting off a farley compact front rest and a large Seb rear bag.
Kim
 
Moving the change from my right pocket to the left doesn't work for me. I prefer to take my sandals off, so my feet don't hurt so much.

As to the bags, by all means take some pains to "level" the sand for each target. How much effort this takes depends to a large extent how hard the sand is packed. "Tracking" does not directly equal "repeatability." Perhaps if more people moved to legal bags ("capable of easy deflection . . ."), much of this problem would go away.

It would be interesting if some score shooter who's willing to give away their secrets would chime in. They use stick rests, and have to go to a new target for every shot.

FWIW
 
I had this problem at the Super Shoot, changed bags, then Front rest.
It kept on happening in every group. Changing powders helped
nothing. A leather rear bag is next on the list., I never had this
problem when squeezing the bag. When shooting a single target
on my home range( no change in rest) the problem does not show up
with second shot being different than 1st, only when going from
sighter to record. I looked at many front bags and many are packed harder than mine.
 
Wilbur said:
If the cause of the shot going high has something to do with changing from the sighter to the record, why don't the subsequent shots follow?
Click to expand...
One cause for the rest of the group not following the first record shot is the fit of the stock heel in the rear bag ears. If the ears are too tight and the stock rides up a ways from the bottom on the ears vee, the stock will, after the first shot, settle down into that vee and get tighter due, partly, to more surface contact, and, partly, have a different recoil path.

On stocks like the Leonard, that have a flat on the heel, a multi-stitch bag solves part of this problem. The ears being too full don't help either.

When the stock heel angle changes from where it was settled by shots on the sighter to a different angle, in the ears, on the record target, that first shot can/will go to a different spot in elevation. It'll drive you batty when it does.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top