Firing pin drop / Ignition = Fliers ?

pipeline60

Kelly Ellis
I have been hearing several conversations lately pertaining to the relation of the bolt, firing pin, trigger, bolt shroud , ignition, and maybe a few other issues causing unexplained fliers. My questions is what exactly would cause the flyer? the firing pin falling at a different rate of travel for 1 or more shots or????
And is a weighted firing pin intended to make the firing pin drop more consistent and alleviate the ignition problem.
Merry Christmas to all
Thanks in advance for your reply's
Kelly Ellis
 
This is not intended to be all inclusinve. The issue seems to be vibrations that are associated with the interaction of the trigger, striker assembly, bolt and action body. There are several issues. For example, some time back Greg Tannel was being frustrated by fliers of undermined origin from a Remington actioned 1,000 yard rife. Having exhausted all his other options, he decided to bush the firing pin hole in the face of the bolt so that the tip of the pin remained in its hole throughout the whole cock and fire cycle. As they come, they do not. Problem solved. Since that discovery, Gre-Tan has become the go to provider for this kind of work. His price is reasonable, as is his turn around time. Everyone praises the quality of his work.

Another issue is related to bolt clearance. The angles where the trigger and cocking piece make contact, combined with the tension imparted by the firing pin spring when the action is cocked, force the back of the bolt up to the point where it contacts the inside of the rear bridge of the action, which takes the top lug off of its abutment. What happens during firing is that the majority of this up force is released as the firing pin starts to fall, except for the reset force of the trigger top lever, that maintains some up pressure on the cocking piece as it falls. The amount of this up force from the trigger can vary quite a bit with different designs.

Another issue has to do with how the cocking piece is kept in a vertical position just prior to, and as it falls. For actions that have striker assemblies that are similar to Remingtons, the shroud pays an improtant role in this situation. The cocking piece is kept from rotating within the shroud by its fit in the slot in the shroud that it travels in. The shroud's rotation within the action is limited by the bolts clearance in the rear bridge, combned with the clearance between the flats on the bottom of the shroud and the bottoms of the lug raceways. If these clearances are not properly controlled the cocking piece can be canted as the bolt is closed which can cause it to hit one of the trigger side plates some of the time, which resultant inconsistent vibration.

Vibration travels from the action down the barrel to the muzzle several times faster than the bullet. One of the requirements for fine accuracy is that bullets clear the muzzle at the same point in the barrel's vibration cycle. Anything that adversely affects consistency in this area will generally have a detrimental effect on accuracy.

These are just a few of the issues that relate to your queston. I am sure that others will chime in with additional examples.

Some time back I had the chance to shoot a European sporter that used caseless ammunition that was ignited electrically, with no striker fall. The bullets in the batch of ammo that I shot had been switched to Bergers. I was amazed that a slim field rifle would shoot so well. At the time I thought that a no vibration ignition system combined with no influence by differences in cartridge cases might have had something to do with its accuracy. This is the rifle. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/04/09/caseless-wonder-vec-91/

More recently, the same company has come up with laser ignition, which works with conventional ammunition.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfd1Qsza4rc
 
LISSEN to this man!!!

Good post Boyd, thank you for taking the time.

May I add that there are at least 5 guys I know of who build or make modifications to the mechanical trigger systems of even full-on custom actions selling for $1500.00 THE ACTION in the interest of making the actions shoot.

Some custom actions like Jim Borden's are sold with the proper timing modifications already done, in fact if someone were to ask me today "whom should I have build me a Light/Heavy Group BR Rifle" I would unquestionably say "Borden." Jim UNDERSTANDS trigger timing as do a few of the other makers......to which I will add, if one is having a competition rifle built IMO it's hoovis to ask the builder "how is the trigger timed" not because you understand what he's gonna' say, but to find out if he knows....

Trigger timing/setup is 'YUGE!


(ooops, is that political?)

lol
al
 
Well stated, Boyd!:cool: And DITTO Al's take regarding the Borden actions - Jim had all of my RimRocks perfectly timed, "right out of the box" - just stock, barrel, scope and shoot well enough to win/place/show. NO messing around with timing issues, which, if less than can prove to be a BIG deal.;) RG
 
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