Cream of Wheat (it's not just for breakfast anymore)

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dasher john

Guest
Hey there-
I've been reviewing some previous postings on fire forming and will be trying the CoW method this time. What Im a bit unsure of is 2 things...
1) Do I need some sort of wad/spacer between the CoW and the powder? (that sounds like a pain)
2) I plan on using Unique. Do/can I use small pistol primers. If yes, standard or magnum. I hate the thought of using CCI 450's if I don't need to.

This is for a 6mm Dasher. Any other words of wisdom will be graciously accepted.

Thanks,
John
 
I just FF some dasher brass. I did 50 the old fashond way by shooting stout loads with bullets. I had some HP-38 powder sitting around, so I figured I would try that with the next 50. Of course the first step is to size up a caliber or two and back down only enough so that I can barely close the bolt. I do this weather I shoot bullets or blanks. I started with 22G with a wad of paper towel stuffed in the neck. Not enough. I tried 25 grains....very close. 27 grains gave me the exact case dementions as regular FF with bullets. I just dumped 27 g in, stuffed a small piece of paper towel in the neck, pointed the gun up in the air, and poof....a niecly formed dasher round. I did not use any grits, cream-o-wheat, or anything like that...just a small piece( about 1" square) of good quality paper towel and stuffed it in the neck.

Ok...not really a "poof".....more like a small atomic detonation.:D But maybe it only seemed that loud since I did the FF in the shop.

Some guys insist that this method does not work as well, but I did a lot of measuring, and I can't tell the difference.

I am sure any fast powder will work. 27 g of HP 38 filled my brass right up to the neck-sholder juncture. I took my time because I noticed the bbl heated up if you go to fast.

Good luck,
Tod
 
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John

Just put a wad on top of the c.o.w. , about a 1" square of paper towel.
I have used small pistol primers in my BR cases to fireform with unique & c.o.w., it worked fine for me.
 
I put the C.O.W. right on top of the powder in two 6 Dashers and I use 8 grains of Unique powder.
You don't want instant or the super quick C.O.W. you want the cheaper longer cooking variety that comes in a box not packets.
When your done fireforming twist a paperclip into a "L" and run it around the shoulder/body junction then tap your cases on a table top.It is somewhat common to get some C.O.W. compressed in this area and vibrating your brass won't remove it all.
Waterboy
 
Hey guys, I only have ONE 6ppc barrel....does fireforming with al this pistol powder do any accelerated wear on the throat or rifling?

gordon
 
I have fire-formed hundreds, if not thousands, of cases both large and small, without a bullet and without COW or any other filler. I never could understand what the filler does. Could someone please explain the need for it?:confused:

Ray
 
docsleepy said:
Hey guys, I only have ONE 6ppc barrel....does fireforming with al this pistol powder do any accelerated wear on the throat or rifling?

gordon
Click to expand...
Can't be any worse than powder and bullets. If you gotta FF brass, and the job can be done W/O bullets, I would think this is the way to go. Definately cheaper, in both time and $$$!!
 
Cheechako said:
I have fire-formed hundreds, if not thousands, of cases both large and small, without a bullet and without COW or any other filler. I never could understand what the filler does. Could someone please explain the need for it?:confused:

Ray
Click to expand...

Cheechako
If you use the Cream Of Wheat it takes 8-9 grains of unique to get a nice sharp shoulder.The C.O.W. gets slammed into the shoulder thats why you sometimes find it compressed in the same area.
If you fireform without the C.O.W. you have to use 3 times as much powder so your eating away the throat much faster and defeating the purpose.
Waterboy aka Lynn
 
Lynn said:
Cheechako
If you use the Cream Of Wheat it takes 8-9 grains of unique to get a nice sharp shoulder.The C.O.W. gets slammed into the shoulder thats why you sometimes find it compressed in the same area.
If you fireform without the C.O.W. you have to use 3 times as much powder so your eating away the throat much faster and defeating the purpose.
Waterboy aka Lynn
Click to expand...

This sounds like a very good and reasonable expination!!!!!. I guess I never knew why either. If I use the same powder (HP-38) with COW I should reduce to somewhere south of 10g. It looks like HP-38 is a little faster than Unique.
 
Cheechako said:
I have fire-formed hundreds, if not thousands, of cases both large and small, without a bullet and without COW or any other filler. I never could understand what the filler does. Could someone please explain the need for it?:confused:

Ray
Click to expand...
Ray, it is cheaper than gunpowder. I've used large cotton balls as well. They too are cheaper than powder. The kind and amount of filler does have an effect on how much powder you use. I've actually loosened primer pockets with filler when I tipped the powder can too much.
 
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Sorry guys, but I can't buy any of those explanations. If you use the correct powder, in the correct amount, you can get beteen 90% and 95% fire-form, first time, every time. Unique is not the correct powder, IMHO. BE or Red Dot is the way. If the cost of 3-5 extra grains of BE is going to bankrupt you . . .

JMHO

Ray
 
FF brass

Cheecado... your method sounds easier.But do I understand you correctly,in that you use nothing over powder... just holding gun vertical.... and firing...???
Thank you for your input..
Bill Larson
 
Bill

If I'm going to shoot at the Linden Municipal Range (gravel pit) I take my primed brass, a powder measure set to the correct amount, a can of BE, and yes, I throw a charge, load the case with the muzzle elevated, point it straight up and jerk the trigger.

Or, I can load the cases at home, put in a 1/4 sheet of Charmin just to hold it in place, and drive to wherever I am going to shoot. In the winter I simply stop along a remote FS road, roll the window down, stick the muzzle out and shoot.

It's not rocket science. 17 - 20 grains of BE will fire-form most any case made from 30-06. For 200 cases that's less than 1/2 lb of powder. The Charmin is probably more expensive than that.:rolleyes:

Ray
 
Cheechako
I think somebody was pulling your leg or drinking heavily before they posted and you fell for it.
I have never heard of anybody using Cream Of Wheat to save on time or powder costs.If you do the math the COW cost more than the powder so take that post for what it cost you.

It doesn't matter if you use Red Dot,Unique,700X or XXX when your using COW as the COW pushing against the case is what gives you perfect brass when done right.

I believe Henry Childs posted the BTU numbers for several of the more common powders so a sharp guy with a pencil and some scratch paper could quickly calculate the difference between using 12 grains of powder "A" and 80 grains of powder "B" with a bullet or 30 grains without.
Waterboy
 
Lynn

I never said anything about using COW as a way to save time or powder costs. I think it was you who said that you need 3 X powder without it (a bit of an exaggeration IMHO). I simply implied that if you are worried about saving a few dollars on powder you should take up another hobby. :rolleyes:

As to the COW being slammed into the shoulder, wouldn't the powder column and/or the hot gasses do the same thing, without the clean up mess afterward?

I stand by my opinion that you don't need anything on top of the correct type and amount of powder.

Ray
 
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Cheechako said:
Lynn

I never said anything about using COW as a way to save time or powder costs. I think it was you who said that you need 3 X powder without it (a bit of an exaggeration IMHO).
Ray
Click to expand...

Cheechako
In the two 6 Dashers we are shooting we are using 8 grains of Unique or Red Dot powder with the C.O.W. to get perfect cases.
If you look above a couple of posts Tod Soeby is using 27 grains of HP-38 to get his cases formed. When I multiply 8 X 3 I keep getting 24 grains of powder so I actually under estimated how much it takes.My bad;)

I think it was Charles who posted you can use C.O.W. to save powder costs as that thought would never even enter my mind.

In my case I would rather use 8 grains of powder and do a little extra work than to use 27 grains or 3.5 times as much barrel eating/eroding powder to accomplish the same goal.I think burning over 3 times the powder would erode the throat sooner but again I don't have scientific proof of this.:)
Waterboy
 
Lynn

If Tod is using 27 grains of powder to form a Dasher case he is using the wrong powder. I don't use that much to form a 280 Ackley. I don't own a Dasher but I'd bet you can form one with 10 to 15 grains of BE, Max.

We're starting to beat this to death. Each shooter should do what he thinks best. All that we can do as experienced shooters is tell others how we skin the cat. It's then up to them.

Ray
 
Question....

If we FF brass without bullets to save on bbl life, and if you use less of a faster powder to save on bbl life, then am I to conclude that when firing bullets I could save on my bbls by using 1/3 the amount of a way faster powder? It makes sence to me that FF with 10 g of powder X as apposed to 27 g of powder z would save on your bbl. So that must also be the case when shooting actual bullets.
 
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