Could it work?

C

Chism G

Active member
Today,I had lunch with a Benchrest Oldtimer. The term "Oldtimer" fits this guy because he attended the first Super Shoot held at Tulsa,Okla. back in the Early 70's. 80 competitors at that shoot got disqualified because of the Wind. 40 to 50mph gusts at times. How anybody can say the "wind is my friend" is beyond me. Anyway, I got a brief benchrest history lesson from a guy who was there when it happened.

Endless stories of the people and good times during earlier years were today's topics. The conversation inevitably turned to what can be done to bring back the glamour of days gone by. During our conversation I called another "Oldtimer" and posed the same question.

Both Oldtimers stated that when the "Crawfish" Shoot in Louisiana shut down, it took away a lot of the glamour of the Sport. In earlier years,the "Crawfish" drew attendance(Annually) from far away locations,both domestic and foreign. All of the big names of the sport would converge on a South Louisiana community in Cajun Country to enjoy what was described as the highlight of the Benchrest shooting season, primarily because of the location.

There were stories of people getting turned away because of late registrations. The capacity was 120 competitors. I had planned to attend the "Crawfish" the year that it closed. That would have been My first Benchrest Match. Both "Oldltimers" are of the opinion that the Sport of Benchrest Competition would grow, if the Crawfish was brought back to Louisiana. They don't buy into the claim that economics is having a big impact on attendance. Maybe for some people. They used tactical Rifle Competition as a comparison,where competitors show up in large numbers, pay more for match fees and equipment and the same prices for Gas and Hotels.

The Tomball Gun Club has done a commendable job of stepping up and continuing the("Crawfish") tradition by hosting this annual event. I have attended every "Crawfish" held at Tomball. The only thing missing is Louisiana. Is it possible that these guys(Oldtimers) could be on to something?



Glenn
 
Glenn,
While everyone would like to beleve that economics isn't the single largest factor, in lower attendance at BR matches, they are not seeing the bigger picture! This is my opion and mine alone and I don't expect anyone else to agree with it, but here it goes. Tactical type matches are everywhere on almost every weekend of the year! I can drive 35 minutes or less in any direction from my house and shoot one of the following disiplines every weekend at 5 different ranges, IDPA, Steel Challenge, USPSA, and a couple others that escape my memory. Fuel cost negligible, travel time negligible, entry fee $15.00-35.00 negligible ammo 100-200 rounds probably close to same cost as BR. Cost to attend the Cactus, fuel $450.00, entry fee $100.00 food $100.00 hotel room $285.00, 1 trip into Brunos portable store $115.00. This is for 1 match now figure doing this 2 times a month for lets say 4 months is about $8,000.00. Now I know there are lots of guys that live in the Phoenix area that don't have that kind of cost, but if you add up when they have to hit the road to lets say the Shamrock or Supershoot or Raton, they are going to expend a similar amount of cash! Then take into consideration that they are on a fixed income as many seniors are, you can see how group shooting can far exceed a tactical match! I also think that the economy doesn't impact a persons drive to start in Benchrest and the associated cost of purchasing the necessary equipment, because as you said the cost of the gear to shoot tactical should be pretty close to starting BR. Far too many group shooters are getting up there in age and a # pass on each year but the numbers needed to replace this aging group just simply aren't there! One other thing that I notice is that Benchrest shooters by nature are guys that have or had the drive to create things or fix things or make things better, and the younger generation just don't think that way anymore, they aren't problem solvers and I have read numerous articles on the fact that in a couple of years there won't be enough problem solvers left in our industrial areas to fix machines the way us older guys did. Well I have probably said enough to start a fire storm, so I'll get off my soap box. I have a friend that used to go to the Crawfish and used to tell me stories of how they would boil the crawdads and scoop them out onto tables lined with newspaper and everyone ate it up, and the best part he said was a band that played music and sang words that you could barely understand. Good luck with trying to solve this never ending shortage of shooters, and please keep making those great bullets, I am down to my last 1000 so as soon as I find some extra bucks I will be ordering some more!
 
SH. I agree with you. I am in SE MI. NBRSA Eastern Region. Except for May. There is a BR match 2-3 times a month. There will be 9 tournaments for me this year. Maybe 11. If I stay healthy. The vacation forms are submitted. 5 Tournaments 3 hr drive. Super Shoot 3 hr. drive.
Now I also like to shoot plates/pins. I could do that every Sat. near Dundee. 45 Min.
There are also a lot of other shooting sports out there.
You get my point.
And you are spot on about the "Fixers". WE are a dieing breed.
I talk to these kids at work about programing your computer to play a game. They think, I am crazy. Just plug in the disk. They say........anyone remember Doom????
Then I have to explain how to measure a bolt/screw. The kids say, well the one that fits on the allen wrench.
I say Imperial Thread. They say huh? :(
 
I dont remember posting to the original where have all the shooters gone.
For me the issue is finances. I can barely afford to shoot the club matches. I can no longer afford to travel and certainly not take time off to travel and pay all the expenses involved.
There will be a registered match here as usual this year but I am not sure I will even be shooting that one with the 100+ entry fees added to all the other expenses.
Just for what its worth
 
Steelhead1 said:
Glenn,
While everyone would like to beleve that economics isn't the single largest factor, in lower attendance at BR matches, they are not seeing the bigger picture! This is my opion and mine alone and I don't expect anyone else to agree with it, but here it goes. Tactical type matches are everywhere on almost every weekend of the year! I can drive 35 minutes or less in any direction from my house and shoot one of the following disiplines every weekend at 5 different ranges, IDPA, Steel Challenge, USPSA, and a couple others that escape my memory. Fuel cost negligible, travel time negligible, entry fee $15.00-35.00 negligible ammo 100-200 rounds probably close to same cost as BR. Cost to attend the Cactus, fuel $450.00, entry fee $100.00 food $100.00 hotel room $285.00, 1 trip into Brunos portable store $115.00. This is for 1 match now figure doing this 2 times a month for lets say 4 months is about $8,000.00. Now I know there are lots of guys that live in the Phoenix area that don't have that kind of cost, but if you add up when they have to hit the road to lets say the Shamrock or Supershoot or Raton, they are going to expend a similar amount of cash! Then take into consideration that they are on a fixed income as many seniors are, you can see how group shooting can far exceed a tactical match! I also think that the economy doesn't impact a persons drive to start in Benchrest and the associated cost of purchasing the necessary equipment, because as you said the cost of the gear to shoot tactical should be pretty close to starting BR. Far too many group shooters are getting up there in age and a # pass on each year but the numbers needed to replace this aging group just simply aren't there! One other thing that I notice is that Benchrest shooters by nature are guys that have or had the drive to create things or fix things or make things better, and the younger generation just don't think that way anymore, they aren't problem solvers and I have read numerous articles on the fact that in a couple of years there won't be enough problem solvers left in our industrial areas to fix machines the way us older guys did. Well I have probably said enough to start a fire storm, so I'll get off my soap box. I have a friend that used to go to the Crawfish and used to tell me stories of how they would boil the crawdads and scoop them out onto tables lined with newspaper and everyone ate it up, and the best part he said was a band that played music and sang words that you could barely understand. Good luck with trying to solve this never ending shortage of shooters, and please keep making those great bullets, I am down to my last 1000 so as soon as I find some extra bucks I will be ordering some more!
Click to expand...

I agree ..but the cost is a big factor,with travel expenses..
I also think , my opinion, the accuracry level that it takes to win a big shoot, does not come easy..ask your self are you going to load up,expend all your money
and time to go to a big shoot when you have a rifle that cant produce the kind of accuracry needed to win..could the winning accuracry level exceeded the
capibility of most shooters and their rifles? is that a posibility?
back in the hay day so to speek, a 1/4" rifle was great and easyer to come by..

let me put it to ya this way, if i had a rifle that i thought could set world records, i would be off work and borrow the money to be at the super shoot.lol
not that im stateing i could shoot it well enough to win, but i sure would be trying..
 
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Steelhead1 said:
Glenn,
While everyone would like to beleve that economics isn't the single largest factor, in lower attendance at BR matches, they are not seeing the bigger picture! This is my opion and mine alone and I don't expect anyone else to agree with it, but here it goes. Tactical type matches are everywhere on almost every weekend of the year! I can drive 35 minutes or less in any direction from my house and shoot one of the following disiplines every weekend at 5 different ranges, IDPA, Steel Challenge, USPSA, and a couple others that escape my memory. Fuel cost negligible, travel time negligible, entry fee $15.00-35.00 negligible ammo 100-200 rounds probably close to same cost as BR. Cost to attend the Cactus, fuel $450.00, entry fee $100.00 food $100.00 hotel room $285.00, 1 trip into Brunos portable store $115.00. This is for 1 match now figure doing this 2 times a month for lets say 4 months is about $8,000.00. Now I know there are lots of guys that live in the Phoenix area that don't have that kind of cost, but if you add up when they have to hit the road to lets say the Shamrock or Supershoot or Raton, they are going to expend a similar amount of cash! Then take into consideration that they are on a fixed income as many seniors are, you can see how group shooting can far exceed a tactical match! I also think that the economy doesn't impact a persons drive to start in Benchrest and the associated cost of purchasing the necessary equipment, because as you said the cost of the gear to shoot tactical should be pretty close to starting BR. Far too many group shooters are getting up there in age and a # pass on each year but the numbers needed to replace this aging group just simply aren't there! One other thing that I notice is that Benchrest shooters by nature are guys that have or had the drive to create things or fix things or make things better, and the younger generation just don't think that way anymore, they aren't problem solvers and I have read numerous articles on the fact that in a couple of years there won't be enough problem solvers left in our industrial areas to fix machines the way us older guys did. Well I have probably said enough to start a fire storm, so I'll get off my soap box. I have a friend that used to go to the Crawfish and used to tell me stories of how they would boil the crawdads and scoop them out onto tables lined with newspaper and everyone ate it up, and the best part he said was a band that played music and sang words that you could barely understand. Good luck with trying to solve this never ending shortage of shooters, and please keep making those great bullets, I am down to my last 1000 so as soon as I find some extra bucks I will be ordering some more!
Click to expand...


I agree with everything Gary said except for some of the "younger generation" stuff. There are still those of us that would rather get dirt under our fingernails than play on our Ipads all day! We're harder to find these days no doubt, but we're here I assure you.:) The problem-solving mentality is in humans at the genetic level and will never go away completely.

As to your comment about BR attendance, I agree. I'm the youngest, self-promoted NBRSA benchrest shooter in the SW region as far as I know. I sometimes share travel expenses, but many times I fly solo. In 2009, when gas fell to $1.89 per gallon, I attended 14 matches in four states. This year, with gas at $4.00+ per gallon, I will be lucky to make 4 or 5 matches in two states unless I can carpool. So from a young guy's point of view, it's just as bad as it is for retired folks. It's just plain tough nowadays......
 
Steelhead1.......I'm not the bullet maker. Happy to be mistaken for such notable craftsmen(Chism Bullets). I've shot some of their bullets and I agree with your assessment.

The oldtimers I talked to, seem to think that the "Crawfish" held a special significance/mystique to the Sport. One trip to the "Crawfish" and you were permanently addicted to the people, the fun and the competition. The Benchrest "Mardi Gras." Tim Oltersdorf never recovered from his first trip. He's still wearing an old necklace with a chicken foot attached.

I've talked to a lot of the old guys. Some still active. They all like to tell their stories about Benchrest Competition and how its impacted their lives. Cherished memories of days gone by and a legitimate fear that Politics and economics will have an ever changing affect on the Sport they love so much.


Photo: Frank Wilson and Dr Tim at "Crawfish" in Louisiana

Tim.jpg


Glenn
 
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Glen I shot the crawfish at Tomball in about 2002 or 2003 with Shelly. I was rather disappointed since they didnt have any crawfish on the menu that year.
The did have a semi cajun meal catered but that was it.

And as for the "I've talked to a lot of the old guys." you might be fooling the younger guys that dont know you but.....as I remember you are certainly older than Tim but maybe just a little younger than Frank.
Frank shot pretty good this last weekend at New Braunfels.
Will you be at the Bluebonnet this year?
 
My nearly 4-score years have taught me one thing - nothing lasts forever. Sad to say but the day will come when Benchrest will be but a footnote in shooting history.
 
Glenn,
sorry for the mistaken identity, great picture. Perhaps the match would draw a good crowd, and the older guys could relive the past, I think thats something we are all trying to do as we age. I think Cheechaco is correct though, there will be a day when Bencrest is just a footnote.
Jim, I think your right that there are those like you that are young and going to be able to fix machinery, but today you are the exception rather that the general rule. Likewise your young and your committed to shootinig group, an even rarer quality. I think in order to perpetuate this sport we need a bunch more young guys that are committed to this shooting discipline. It will take a marketing genius to figure out how to do that! Look at the sucsess of Cowboy Action Shooting, when they are in Phoenix, they bus in spectators by the thousands, and they get live news coverage, how is it that a sport that has been around for such a short time can do that, while the NBRSA and the IBS have been around for years and they don't even register a blip on anyone's radar in the news media in Phoenix. When is the last time you saw any of the firearms related shows,on TV feature a benchrest match? If you watch Shooting USA week after week its Tactical or IDPA or Cowboy Action, I mean its ludachrist to think that both Benchrest shooting organizations do absolutely nothing to get our sport into some sort of advertising campaign. I don't know if there is a solution, but what I do know is that there is a problem and if your not part of the solution then your part of the problem, for to many years the leadership of both organizations has entrenched itself in a do nothing attitude, and now its catching up with them. Have you ever seen a town die, I can take you to places that once had booming econmies and now they are all but dead, boarded up store fronts and little to no down town activity, why because when they lost their primary source of revenue, no one in the town knew how to re invent what drew people there!
On a smaller scale that's what's going on in the benchrest world! Once again this is my opinion and mine only! Does anyone know if Hunter and VFS numbers are growing? I know the hunter BR numbers have gone down but by how much? How many new shooters show up with their factory guns or a new BR type rifle, it would be interesting to see those stats!
 
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In order to have a Match, you have to have somebody willing to do all of the work that it takes to hold a Registered Event.

Encroachment is what is said to have caused the demise of The Crawfish in Louissiana. But in reality, Benchrest in Louisianna died when Louis Langelise died and Marcy Lyons got too old........jackie
 
Now that's scary. The success/failure of such a popular event rested on the shoulders of just two good men. If that's the case throughout the organization,the future is on shaky ground.


Glenn
 
Steelhead1 said:
Glenn,
sorry for the mistaken identity, great picture. Perhaps the match would draw a good crowd, and the older guys could relive the past, I think thats something we are all trying to do as we age. I think Cheechaco is correct though, there will be a day when Bencrest is just a footnote.
Jim, I think your right that there are those like you that are young and going to be able to fix machinery, but today you are the exception rather that the general rule. Likewise your young and your committed to shootinig group, an even rarer quality. I think in order to perpetuate this sport we need a bunch more young guys that are committed to this shooting discipline. It will take a marketing genius to figure out how to do that! Look at the sucsess of Cowboy Action Shooting, when they are in Phoenix, they bus in spectators by the thousands, and they get live news coverage, how is it that a sport that has been around for such a short time can do that, while the NBRSA and the IBS have been around for years and they don't even register a blip on anyone's radar in the news media in Phoenix. When is the last time you saw any of the firearms related shows,on TV feature a benchrest match? If you watch Shooting USA week after week its Tactical or IDPA or Cowboy Action, I mean its ludachrist to think that both Benchrest shooting organizations do absolutely nothing to get our sport into some sort of advertising campaign. I don't know if there is a solution, but what I do know is that there is a problem and if your not part of the solution then your part of the problem, for to many years the leadership of both organizations has entrenched itself in a do nothing attitude, and now its catching up with them. Have you ever seen a town die, I can take you to places that once had booming econmies and now they are all but dead, boarded up store fronts and little to no down town activity, why because when they lost their primary source of revenue, no one in the town knew how to re invent what drew people there!
On a smaller scale that's what's going on in the benchrest world! Once again this is my opinion and mine only! Does anyone know if Hunter and VFS numbers are growing? I know the hunter BR numbers have gone down but by how much? How many new shooters show up with their factory guns or a new BR type rifle, it would be interesting to see those stats!
Click to expand...

I hear ya Gary. We need new blood and preferably young blood to keep the sport going. But I don't see it happening. Match directors don't advertise locally so most folks don't even know there is benchrest in their area. Then when you invite a new guy to come see the festivities on practice day, they get overwhelmed with the whole game. They might ask a few questions and hang around a bit, but I think they leave more confused and intimidated than when they came. I don't know how to solve the problem. But I'm pretty sure I'll live long enough to witness the last BR match in our country and that's not a pleasant thought. It's gonna get lonely out there on the range...........
 
Even with changes in range locations and costs of shooting, the benchrest community has become too fragmented to flurish as it did in the past. Very little in my area without a 400 mile drive to shoot even a club match A group match even farther. Here, everything is built around 600 yd matches or 1000 yd. What little short range benchrest shooting matches there are, are score matches. I am not interested in them.

I have to admit though it's been 40 years since I had a chance to shoot in a registered match. That was in Casa Granda, AZ back in 71. Had a chance to meet a lot of great people back then. Like to really get started again but it's real hard to get involved when there is no where to shoot without a loooong drive. And the fact a lot has changed in 40 years, so I am basically starting from scratch. Anybody down east in NC?

George
George
 
45-100,
You know I think there are a good number of BR shooters that participate for a single reason and that is the friendships that they have developed over the years, they come to matches with the hope that they will win something, but the real reason for attending is to see their friends. I certainly have people that i enjoy seeing and talking to at matches, but with the associated cost I find myself saying why go when the expenditure far outweighs the benefit, back when fuel was 1/3rd the cost it is now it wan't an issue, at the end of the match a piece of pine board is hardly justificatin for spending $1000.00.
Jim ,looking forward to seeing you guys agin this year at Springville and I will also shoot Logan this year, after those 2 shoots I am not going to shoot group any more! I think I am going to sell the rail and maybe the heavy gun, and maybe shoot a score match once in a while, I can stay local and shoot shotgun or some IDPA and I think the that will be just as satisfying as shooting group shoots. Plus I have had my custom built Drift Boat for 6 years and I think I have used a total of 20 hours, and I need to utilze it while I am still able. So looking forward to seeing you guys soon.
 
Steelhead1 said:
Jim ,looking forward to seeing you guys agin this year at Springville and I will also shoot Logan this year, after those 2 shoots I am not going to shoot group any more! I think I am going to sell the rail and maybe the heavy gun, and maybe shoot a score match once in a while, I can stay local and shoot shotgun or some IDPA and I think the that will be just as satisfying as shooting group shoots. Plus I have had my custom built Drift Boat for 6 years and I think I have used a total of 20 hours, and I need to utilze it while I am still able. So looking forward to seeing you guys soon.
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Sorry to hear that Gary! Always enjoyed having you around down here. Who's going to represent Idaho in group BR now???
Hopefully, you'll change your mind but I certainly understand the reasons.
See you in May.
 
There is a lot of fear about how the democrats are going to take our guns and ruin our sport. I haven't seen that happen but I can tell you why I don't show up for many matches. I have never felt truly welcome at Benchrest competitions because my bumper stickers are different.

It is hard to feel welcome with all the tshirts and comments at the range constantly knocking my president. This is not an inclusive or tolerant crowd. I carry concealed, have a safe full of guns and have shot all my life. Trust me, I'm not the only democrat with a gun. I don't know of a single other democrat at a benchrest competition. I was told by the guy that mentored me into the sport that he couldn't be friends with someone that voted for Obama. I haven't found that attitude in any other hobby I've participated in. I'm a democrat and I shoot small groups. There, I said it.

This is not a political argument. This is a commentary on a failure of an otherwise great bunch of guys. And Glenn, you and many others have always been cordial and friendly to me at the matches we've been to together. I'm sure you've had to let a lot of stuff roll off your back in the years you've been in the sport so the irony of my response is not lost on me. I'm just saying that it's an expensive and time consuming hobby and to continually have to hear how the party and president that you support is the death of freedom makes the effort less justifiable.

I wish it was different but it is what it is. Long live Benchrest.
 
To Ray FromTX

Hi Ray... I wondered what happened to you. Come on back man,I miss ya. The Sport needs ya. My Wife is a Democrat(I don't hold that against her) and she hates guns. You can imagine what life is like in my house. I don't choose my friends or hobby according to their/it's Political affiliation. I enjoy the sport for what it is.


Glenn
 
Look at the sunny side of life.

Glen, Amid all this talk of doom and gloom there is one bright spot at least in the Gulf Coast. You were there to see it happen. Last weekend at the GC U & HV at Tomball a very nice rimfire shooter visited. He was interested in our sport but much more importantly he brought along his girlfriend. She was one of those women who was so beautiful that your eyes were riveted on her. I totally made a fool of myself by staring so blatantly at her. That poor woman was surrounded by 31 scruffy older males who had completely switched off their cerebral cortexes and were concentrating on her solely with their primitive reptilian brains. At the line our esteemed GC director who was shooting next to me best summed it up when he exalted: " A benchrest groupie at last!" Tim
 
Could it Work

I don't usually post much - seems what I might have to say has been said, or maybe best left unsaid.

I've been involved with shooting since I was about 6 years old, 60 years ago. I learned early on that shooting was expensive, even if Dad bought the shells. Seems I paid something like a quarter for a box of 22 shorts. Anyway, there was always someone with more money & better equipment than I could afford.

I had a brief stint of BR shooting in the late 60s to mid 70s. Always had second, or third, line equipment and it didn't take long to grasp the sport was a rich man's game and it still is. In fact, just about any shooting disipline is a rich man's game. I know the old Winchester model 12, Remington 1100 or 870 can and do win some trap shoots, but not many. I know someone is going to say what about golf, or any # of other sports. Look at duck hunting, big game hunting, etc. they aren't cheap either.

So my opinion is $$ is the limiting factor to most any shooting sport. You best better have the $$ to buy top line equipment, have time to practice, be able to travel and WANT to do those things or you might as well stay home. I don't care what anyone says, it is not fun in the least to know you are going to get waxed and there is nothing you can do about it.

There are plenty of people with plenty of money to make BR a screaming success, but the game doesn't appeal to them. It isn't exactly a spectator sport, rates right up there with paint drying or grass growing. At least with trap or skeet, something happens that people can see. Cowboy shooting is fun to watch as well.

Anyhow, enough said.

Jim
 
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