Cold weather load development

T

Tod Soeby

New member
Does it make any sence at all to do some load development when it is COLD....like ND COLD......from zero down to like -30. I do know that with almost all powders there is going to be a velocity difference between warm and cold weather. But lets say I go out and find that xyz bullet and abc powder shoots best at 2950fps. Could I take that info into the summer and try find that same velocity and expect the same results?

I have a tube sittin at the smiths and I can't make up my mind what to chamber it in....300 wby or 300 WSM. The current tube is a 300 WSM, but I have ZERO experience with it. I know I can get a WBY to shoot, but the extended tube life of the WSM makes more sence. I want to see if I can get it to shoot, but if I wait till it is warm outside....well....its North Dakota for Gods sake....it may NEVER get warm enough.....and time is limited.:D

What say you (besides that I am a nut job :eek:)?

Thanks,
Tod
 
use more powder..

I usually use 1/2 gr more poweder per 10* temp diff....so you do the math and add the appropriate ammount....dont believe the marketing propaganda...ALL powders are affected by temp. variations....let us know how it goes....Roger
 
Tod Soeby said:
Does it make any sence at all to do some load development when it is COLD....like ND COLD......from zero down to like -30. I do know that with almost all powders there is going to be a velocity difference between warm and cold weather. But lets say I go out and find that xyz bullet and abc powder shoots best at 2950fps. Could I take that info into the summer and try find that same velocity and expect the same results?
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To know for sure, we'd have to find a nut job who has actually done it. There is cold, and then there is COLD. If you have to shoot, you could just take the 12-gauge & blow holes in snow drifts.


I have a tube sittin at the smiths and I can't make up my mind what to chamber it in....300 wby or 300 WSM. The current tube is a 300 WSM, but I have ZERO experience with it. I know I can get a WBY to shoot, but the extended tube life of the WSM makes more sence. I want to see if I can get it to shoot, but if I wait till it is warm outside....well....its North Dakota for Gods sake....it may NEVER get warm enough.....and time is limited.:D
Click to expand...

If you look at the IBS Long Range Marksman program, the very first guy to qualify was Greg McGee -- 1995, was it? He shot a .300 Weatherby. On the other hand, the .300 WSM has now been around long enough that we're pretty comfortable it will compete.

As to barrel life, here's my thought. If a barrel shoots crappy, take it off immediately. Who cares how long it lasts?

If it shoots pretty good, you're in a quandary. Best is to try for a better one as soon as you can reasonably afford it. Easier to do psychologically if you can tell yourself it is worn out.

If it is fantastic, take it off immediately. Save it for big matches -- Nationals, State Championships, things like that. It may not last you a lifetime of National Championships, but it you're careful & stay with what is winning for you rather than fooling around with the latest internet rumor, it just might. That's good enough barrel life.

What say you (besides that I am a nut job :eek:)?
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Nothing to add here.
 
When I work up hunting loads I've taken the time to set three rounds in the freezer overnight for testing this (it's kinda' weird to slip a frost-covered round into a 120 degree rifle on a 95 degree day!) and to heatsoak some rounds to 150degrees....

In a 3000fps load I expect to lose about 120fps for the cold rounds and gain 80-100 for the hot ones. For this reason alone I feel it's wise to never reload to within more than a grain, or even 2gr on large case, from the maximum safe load. I often find wonderful accuracy and low ES 1-2gr below max on 308/30-06 sized cases and 2gr below max on WSM sized cases.


All this aside, when I'm working up loads in cold weather I just keep the rounds protected using a cooler and keeping rounds in an inside pocket.

al
 
Hey Expiper
I guess I should stop complaining about the 50 degree weather out here.:eek:
Lynn aka Waterboy
 
Ohhhh, and BTW Tod, I don't think air temperature has any effect at all....... except as relates to humidity/density altitude and such..... in the friggin' DIRT stuff.

A 2950fps load developed at 50below should fly just the same at 75degrees...... provided THE ROUND is at the same temp.

I shoot from a temperature regulated indoor area and don't see any difference between temps. ('Course this ain't NoDak!!!!! :D )

BTDT GTTS

(Actually, it wasn't a tee shirt.... it was a parka over a jacket over a flannel over my woollies over my longhannles over my briefs-n-undershirt..... and Mickey Mouse on the bottom. Swampers peter out at about 20 below :D Warmth starts in the FEET y'know, and goes out y'er head..... so's I had me chook on too...... )

Y'know, it's funny. I had to buy a whole stack of totes to store the stuff in for "just in case."

:eek:

One a' these here one days I'll pay to ship it back to a Goodwill in the tundra! When my body and brain finally BELIEVE I'll never need them out here!

:D

LOL

al
 
I like Al's freezer of prepping of his hunting rounds. Just remember, a freezer is about +30 F. For all we know, the affects of temperature on velocity may continue below freezing. So if it is -20 F where you are, that's 50 degrees colder than the freezer.

If you are going to shoot outside in the winter to develop loading data for summer matches, use the chronograph. See if what works in the winter (in terms fps) also works in the summer. POI will likely shift, but grouping ability -- who knows?

As to chamberings. Ed Caldwell also shot a .300 Weatherby, with the belt turned off. A very nice man, Ed, but competing against him was frustrating -- Ed was the first or second guy to reach the Gold level in the Long Range Marksman program. Danny Brooks has done most of his damage with the .300 Win Mag. He also shoots a .300 WSM, but it doesn't outperform his Win Mag. Kerry Vinson (former SOY) shot a .308 Norma Mag. etc.

Point being that there is no "best" .30 chambering. There are, however, "best" combinations for a particular barrel/bullet/chambering. In .30s, I've stuck with two chamberings for 10 years now. With the same bullets and chambering, I've found that one barrel liked VV N-560, another Rel-22, another Rel-25. So while Rel-22 was the first thing I tested & most barrels preferred it, some performed better with one of the other powders.

With the other chambering -- 6 grains more capacity -- most barrels liked Rel-22, but one preferred H4831.

When you take up with a new chambering (and the WSM is fair bit smaller than the .300 Weatherby), not only are you committed to new dies, but also new powders -- more than one, I'd say -- and maybe new bullets. Perhaps primers, too. That first 10 percent of the pressure curve seems to determine a lot of final grouping ability.

Going to a new chambering is expensive!
 
Charles E said:
Point being that there is no "best" .30 chambering. There are,
When you take up with a new chambering (and the WSM is fair bit smaller than the .300 Weatherby), not only are you committed to new dies, but also new powders -- more than one, I'd say -- and maybe new bullets. Perhaps primers, too. That first 10 percent of the pressure curve seems to determine a lot of final grouping ability.

Going to a new chambering is expensive!
Click to expand...

With the new gun came a full set of very good dies, 100 turned and fully prepped new brass , and a few other odds and ends. As for powders and primers, I already have most of the powders that I will try on hand. The expence will be in the actual load development in both time and components.

Al,

I to like the freezer Idea, but the thought of firing a frost covered round scares the hell out of me. We have been told for years to make sure our chambers and brass are clean and free of any oil or lubricant.....for the obvious reasons. I will have to say that water is baisicly a cheap lubricant, and bolt thrust has got to rise.

Or am I wrong about that.
 
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get out there

hahah....I thought you ND guys were tuff....If I had a new bbl and prepped brasss and all the stuff ...the gun wuld be a crakin....them new truks will sell themselves in this weather....get on your coveralls and long johns and let us know what you find....I will try and enclose a pic of my shootin bench....I have a fire ring beside it and when I am out on these "chilly" days I build a fire and make the most of it.!!!! hahah...Im not a spring chiken any mor and understand cold weather (worked out in it for 35 yrs..brrr-grrr)....
You will be able to break in that new bbl. and get the gun zeroed and cases fire formed....it will save valuable time when the weather breaks....good luk the WSM is a great cal.....Roger
PS ...there is frost on the ctgs. when they are the only thing that is cold....no problem when everyting is -20 including your fingers..ahhaahha...and ...once you get to shootin the gun warms up FAST...if your hands are cold just hold em on the bbl.....clean quik and get to goin agin....
 

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I think you West-by God boys must get into that liquid corn a little to much.:D
 
Danny Brooks
I think that picture of Rogers bench must have been photo-shopped.I have included a picture from last week when he was in southern california looking at super models.Not much snow in the picture.
Waterboy
 
whew just came in from milkin the cows!!!

hahah....Lynn you stinker...where did U get that pic....I told Eva Longoria to not give any info out to the Paparazzi....ahahha..........see those snow capped waves in the bakground...;)
 
Tod Soeby said:
Does it make any sence at all to do some load development when it is COLD....like ND COLD......from zero down to like -30. I do know that with almost all powders there is going to be a velocity difference between warm and cold weather.
I What say you (besides that I am a nut job :eek:)?

Thanks,
Tod
Click to expand...

Nut job, no. Something to do, yes, as long as you are not just wearing out a good barrel.
 
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Tod
If it was me I would try your old loads in your old gun as you already know what to expect and compare your hot weather data with your cold weather results.
Lynn aka Waterboy
 
Charles E said:
I like Al's freezer of prepping of his hunting rounds. Just remember, a freezer is about +30 F. For all we know, the affects of temperature on velocity may continue below freezing. So if it is -20 F where you are, that's 50 degrees colder than the freezer.

If you are going to shoot outside in the winter to develop loading data for summer matches, use the chronograph. See if what works in the winter (in terms fps) also works in the summer. POI will likely shift, but grouping ability -- who knows?
Click to expand...

the freezer I use is set to 0 F

I shoot everything over the chronograph. I'd guess I've shot through around 80 degrees of temp. No change in anything because the rounds are kept to consistent temp.

regarding the frosty rounds.... I don't put them in all slippery and icy. I wipe the frost off and let the brass acclimate for several seconds until it stays dry. This has no effect on the powder charge.

BTST when I heat sink them I put them in the heat for at least an hour.

al
 
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