carbon build up in 30 BR barrel

R

reelxprs

New member
Just got home from the NC 200-300 Yd. match and bore scoped my Bartlein barreled 30Br rifle( which I shot very bad- finished 24 out of 27 shooters) and have a lot of black carbon build-up in the lands. My question is what do you guys use to clean the carbon out of barrels?
Thank you for advice.
Jeff Fountain
PS At the last match there I finished 4 @ 200 yds.
 
There are two kinds of carbon fouling. Carbon on down the barrel and the infamous carbon ring right at the junction of the neck and rifling.

For the latter, search on here for "carbon ring".

For the former, there are many ways to get it out and many different products. For the really stubborn stuff, I use repeated treatments of Bore Tech Carbon Remover and some scrubbing with a brass brush. Some folks use USP Bore Paste or Iosso.

Greg J
 
reelxprs said:
... have a lot of black carbon build-up in the lands. My question is what do you guys use to clean the carbon out of barrels?
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Run 3 to 5 tight fitting patches of J-B Nonembedding Bore Cleaning Compound [get the large size, it will last forever]: http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleani...mbedding-bore-cleaning-compound-prod1160.aspx back in forth in the entire barrel. Clean the barrel before and after using it. It goes in gray and Always comes out black.

And, on a slightly over sized brush, at the end of the neck chamber. Twirl it about 30 revolutions. How much? About the size of a good sized pea [the vegetable]. :)
 
And...

When you get the carbon out and it shoots poorly once again, start saving for a new barrel.
 
Wilbur said:
When you get the carbon out and it shoots poorly once again, start saving for a new barrel.
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......How many rounds are on the barrel? That's one question I have. What type of cleaners are being used is another?

You also have to be aware that even if your using the same type/brand of powder that they will vary from lot to lot in how clean they burn etc....it might not be the barrel. Also I feel some of the liquid bore cleaners work better than others.

I don't like the paste cleaners. I'm o.k. with JB bore compound and Rem.40x bore cleaner for working on the carbon build up/fouling.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
Kg1

KG1 got a bunch of black stuff out of my 30 BR barrel. I don't know if it was that or the repair Leupold did on my scope, but it shoots predictably now.
 
There is only one way

To get carbon out once it has been ironed on, MECHANICALLY. You can use up a dozen brushes and still may have carbon if it hasn't ever been removed. I recommend taking a worn out brush and wrapping 000 steel wool around it until it is a tight fit, apply a mixture of 1/2 Kroil and Mystery Oil or ATF to the brush/wool and scrub until you don't see black any more. You will need to add wool as you go to keep a good tight fit.

Folks who don't get to look into their barrels have no idea what is in them. Usually, I see carbon, and lots of it, in the barrels of friends I look down. A little 320 Clover brand would help a bit. 320, used right, will help you. It requires a feel for smoothness but if one has a barrel that ain't shooting, what does one have to loose? I see barrels brought to life once they are smoothened out some. Check out the Final Finish kits and you may get an idea of what I am talking about.

Pete
 
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I'm almost 70!

stool said:
gonna disagree pete,
chemicals and time will remove carbon......
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I don't have the time - - - -. Yes, chemicals will remove carbon but if someone has a hard build up, it will take a very long time and a lot of work that can be shortened up considerably. Barrels wear out anyway so scrubbing on them some ain't gonna change their life cycle much, from my experience.

There are some good tests of gun cleaning solvents on Youtube. I have watched the ones on copper removal; sort of myth busters, if you will. They will show one how effective chemicals are and which ones. I don't know if the same is true for carbon but I will look when I get a chance.

Pete
 
cleaning with steel wool

Recently I read an account of one fellow's use of a short section of cleaning rod, powered by a cordless screwdriver, using .30 cal. bronze brush, spun for 30 seconds. There is also Tony Boyer's old method that involves filling an over sized (6.5?) nylon brush with IOSSO and doing the same thing for less time manually. I have also considered wrapping a 6mm brush with an oiled patch that slightly overhangs the front of the brush, and applying IOSSO to the patch right where the brush ends, and spinning that by hand. Do any of you have any other methods that you like, that I have not mentioned?
Thanks,
Boyd[/QUOTE]

I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular so I don't want anyone to take offense to it but I have to say. We've dealt with the cordless screw driver and a shaft and guys using an abrasive like steel wool, emery cloth etc....if you do this your on your own. You wreck/damage the chamber/barrel you have to take the responsibility for what your doing to it.

You won't catch me using the cordless drill method.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels


The above was taking from a different thread on here about using a cordless drill to clean the carbon ring out of the chamber/throat area of the barrel. Again I'm going to say you start doing stuff like this your on your own. You have to take responsibility for what you do to the gun/barrel. I've seen too many damaged barrels from cleaning! From guys using steel wool to guys leaving patches in the barrels (and the guns get shot or tried to get shot and the patch is still in it), guys mixing solvents and they have no clue how the solvents are going to react with one another and how it's going to react with the steel and it pits/etches the bore etc....

Later, Frank
 
In my seach

to find something that would take lead from Rimfire barrels, I found on the internet a product called Big 45 Metal Cleaner. It looks like steel wool but is said not to harm metal surfaces. I haven't bought any yet but may. Lead is a problem with RF barrels; at least the three barrels I use. like Carbon, once ironed in, it is a B word to take out. Solvents may take it out but I have yet to find one that is fast at removing it. With RF's ya got wax, lead and carbon, in layers, all of which come off slowly. In a typical rimfire match at least 3, 25 record bull targets are shot and some times either 5 or 6, without much time to clean between cards. All of my barrels need a lot of cleaning after a match. I have used every combination of cleaner and mixture of oil I have seen posted here and while some of them help the process, none of them are instant.

The same is true for CF rifles only we deal with copper and carbon. Same deal is true. The advantage of CF is the lesser number of shots per match BUT there is a heck of a lot more powder burned and more copper exposed in a 30 Cal outfit. Been doing it since 1998 so I have at least some experience with the process.

Pete
 
I think that it is obvious that the more aggressive the cleaning method, the more potential that it has for doing damage if mishandled. I use a guide that was made by Chet Whitebread. It has tubes that fit both the rod and the guide, and extend as far forward as they can, without interfering with either the brush or the patch at the back of their strokes. Every time that I take a rod out of the guide, I wipe it off. When using the rod, I pay close attention to so that its handle stays in line with the bore during the whole stroke. When I resort to using an abrasive, I am even more careful, and clean out the guide and rod tubes as well as the barrel after finishing with the abrasive. Some barrels seem to tolerate being shot dirty more than others. I try to keep this in mind, so that I do not clean more often than necessary to maintain accuracy. When I do clean I check my work with a bore scope with an eye toward using as few rod cycles a possible, while still getting the job done. Bore scopes can lead you astray in that it is easy to get too preoccupied with getting every speck out of a barrel, when the methods needed to do so may actually do more harm than good. I believe that what is needed is to clean to a consistent starting place so that things do not pile up from cleaning to cleaning. Different powders can require different cleaning regimens. If I was a barrel maker, knowing what I do about how people can misconstrue simple instructions, I would be very conservative in my cleaning recommendations. For most of humanity, the clearest possible instructions often do not result in the reader doing the thing exactly correctly, unless they have an intuitive grasp of the situation, which is rare. Think about it. How many shooters have you seen using their cleaning rod as if they were trying to clear a blocked drain pipe, unaware of the bend that they were putting in the rod on every stroke? Over the years, I have come a long way from that three piece, brushed finish, aluminum rod, with the loop jag.
 
I don't believe in beating up a barrel by cleaning it. Instead, I stay on top of the copper and carbon instead of waiting until it can be a problem,,,oops,,, what is the problem with a little copper or carbon in a barrel. I did say "a little".
I'm with Frank Green on the intensity of the cleaning regimen. I don't shoot rim fire in competition, only center fire and the backyard rifle I use on squirrels and rabbits doesn't know about my big name and my reputation on the center fire circuit. Also, I don't count the misses on rabbits, squirrels, coons, or possums. I only brag about the hits. Come to think of it, those are all in the dark and with one hand hind my back.
It's raining and I'm bored.
 
Uthink Uknow, You are correct and I agree on the cleaning and over cleaning etc...

Cleaning a RF barrel is different then cleaning a CF barrel in my opinion.

FBecigneul, I feel guys who use the paste cleaners and as you said the patches come out with the black color to them. I feel using the paste cleaners you are basically lapping the bore each time and I also feel you can make the bore to smooth which leads to a copper fouling situation and then guys blame the barrel/barrel maker that the barrel is bad because it fouls to much and doesn't hold accuracy etc....

I shot my F-Class gun again two weekends ago at a match. 75 rounds with no cleaning (you don't get no time to clean the gun during the match). The last match before that I shot it in, I shot nearly 100 rounds with no cleaning. I do clean after the match and normally just patches and solvent. Back to back matches. The caliber is .284win. and the barrel has just shy of 500 rounds on it. I won both matches and set two different range records. The last match at 500 yards I shot a 200-11x. The gun is holding 1/4moa to 1/3moa groups at any distance.

My short range bench gun last time I shot it.....the last five 5 shot groups the gun average a .177". One of the groups came in at .098". I kept the targets.....oh and by the way those last 5 groups the barrel had a 105 rounds on it total with out cleaning!

Again I feel more damage is done from cleaning than from anything else.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
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Frank,
Thanks for sharing. That is some great shooting. Generally, in my limited experience, the larger the caliber (bore diameter) the greater the tolerance for fouling, and also, the lower the velocity all else being the same, the less that copper fouling comes into play.

On the paste thing, I have a friend that is getting a pretty good handle on his competition, short range benchrest shooting, and cleaning. As a result of some choices that he has made, I think that he should be able to go a lot longer without cleaning. Part of his recent routine, that seems to be working well, is to fill one of the softer, black bristled bore brushes with IOSSO and short stroke the back of the bore only, going perhaps 8" forward of the chamber, to cover the area where his normal cleaning (for LT32) has left behind carbon. Having done some experiments lapping barrels for both rimfire and center fire, and owning a bore scope, he has become very well educated as to the consequences of doing anything to make a CF barrel too smooth, especially in the front half to two thirds. This has not been a quick process, but by slowly getting a handle on several factors, he has arrived at his destination. The nylon brush and IOSSO in the back for carbon thing came directly from Tony Boyer, from the days when he was shooting T powder. All I did was pass it on, and for this particular powder and application, it seems to work very well. Because my friend has a bore scope, and has been chambering barrels for a long time, he is very aware of the consequences of cleaning that is sloppily done. Looking around at matches, I would have to say that this is not universal. Thanks for posting.

Boyd
 
Unless one has a bore scope

There is no way to ever know what condition exists inside one's barrel. I disagree somewhat regarding the concern of aggressive cleaning. If one has baked on, ironed on carbon, no amount of patches and chemicals are going to remove it. Considering barrels eventually fire crack and wear out, once one is carboned up a bunch it is close to toast anyway; depending on the barrel of course. Some of them shoot and set records looking like a moonscape. Carbon buildup often takes time but is insidious and once it's there, it will stay unless it is muscled out, from my experience. I have shot mostly 30 cal rifles in Benchrest since 1996 and have experienced about all that can be experienced. Some barrels are magnets to fouling and some clean up easily. Time usually pushes them toward the former category however.

The common thread between RF and CF barrels is carbon and it lays down about the same in either type barrel. The differences being lead and burned on wax in layers in RF barrels. I have come to believe that many barrels that folks give up on or that dwindle off in accuracy can be brought back to life with a bit of not worrying about scratching the inside and removing the fouling. Think about the lapping process. It is not a delicate process and scratches the steel, albeit in the same direction. Gordy Gritter either has made or is soon to make a video on lapping barrels for accuracy. Should be worth a look. He did say in the Youtube vid I saw him speak about this on that he uses 320, I think it was as his final finish. Paying attention to one's rod is quite important in this and developing a feel for the process and it's results is also very important. One can't be a bull about doing things and find success unless it is in an area where finesse isn't required.

Pete
 
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