Bullet Runout

D

Doubs

New member
I'd like to control bullet runout on my .223 hand loads to less than .0025". I use the following equipment: Rock Chucker press, Redding S-Die FL sizer and a Redding micrometer seating die. I also have a Forster outside neck turner that I use to keep neck wall thickness at .012". I use cases with the same headstamp and mostly use Nosler Custom Competition 52 grain bullets.

After sizing I usually check case neck runout before loading a case. I use an RCBS Case Master to check runout... probably not the best rig but it's one I've had for many years.

While most cartridges are within the standard I want, many exceed it and I'm not sure why.

Suggestions anyone?
 
Doubs said:
I'd like to control bullet runout on my .223 hand loads to less than .0025". I use the following equipment: Rock Chucker press, Redding S-Die FL sizer and a Redding micrometer seating die. I also have a Forster outside neck turner that I use to keep neck wall thickness at .012". I use cases with the same headstamp and mostly use Nosler Custom Competition 52 grain bullets.

After sizing I usually check case neck runout before loading a case. I use an RCBS Case Master to check runout... probably not the best rig but it's one I've had for many years.

While most cartridges are within the standard I want, many exceed it and I'm not sure why.

Suggestions anyone?
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What kind of Rifle are you shooting?
 
I know you believe that the straightest ammo will shoot more accurately...but have you tested this belief to see if it's true. Has anybody?
 
Wilbur said:
I know you believe that the straightest ammo will shoot more accurately...but have you tested this belief to see if it's true. Has anybody?
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Not to any great extent but I have done some testing. I segregate my cartridges according to bullet runout into three groups: <.0025", .0025-.004 and >.004. I have seen a minor difference in groups shot with each set. My goal is, of course, the smallest groups possible but in order to stay in the 10 ring on our bench rest targets, 1/2 MOA is maximum.
 
Hunter said:
Actually, at 100 yds, a 30 caliber can hit the 10 ring every time with a .8 MOA. :)
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True. If you add .300" to each side of the .500" 10 ring, theoretically 1.1 MOA accuracy would do that with a .308. But, the X-count would be low. The last match I shot, the fellow next to me won with a 250-22X. He uses a 30BR rifle. At least three of our shooters score a 250 often so the X-count is the tie breaker.

our BR matches are open to the public and we're 100 miles South of Hotlanta. Come shoot with us sometime. Our schedule is posted at: www.fortvalleygc.net
 
Doubs said:
True. If you add .300" to each side of the .500" 10 ring, theoretically 1.1 MOA accuracy would do that with a .308....

our BR matches are open to the public and we're 100 miles South of Hotlanta. Come shoot with us sometime. Our schedule is posted at: www.fortvalleygc.net
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You can't add .308 to each side and expect to hit the 10 ring with all your shots; remember, center-to-center spread is what counts.

Thanks for the information about your club. I live on the north side of town and it's about 120 miles to Fort Valley for me; that's probably outside my "comfort zone" for making many 25-shot matches. I assume y'all shoot five score targets at one distance, correct? What's the entry fee?
 
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Hunter said:
You can't add .308 to each side and expect to hit the 10 ring with all your shots; remember, center-to-center spread is what counts.
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I was considering a C-C of 1.1" which I think would work although there would be many nibbles of the 10 ring. Of course when variables such as the wind - and our range is windy - then a C-C of 1.1" wouldn't be my choice by any means. My Sabatti .308 will do 1/2 inch groups and under.

Thanks for the information about your club. I live on the north side of town and it's about 120 miles to Fort Valley for me; that's probably outside my "comfort zone" for making many 25-shot matches. I assume y'all shoot five score targets at one distance, correct? What's the entry fee?
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We do shoot 5 targets for 25 scoring shots total. 10 minutes per target. Distances of 100, 200 and 300 yards on a rotational basis. Our next match will be at 200 yards. Match fee is $7. (It's all for bragging rights and that keeps the fee reasonable) Match begins at 9:30 AM but often a bit later. We tend to socialize a bit but we're very serious about our shooting.
 
sandiego1948 said:
LOOK A club br match with a $7 entry fee! Any other questions why "registered" br matches are down ?
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Without knowing ANY facts beyond the fee we charge for our club BR match, you conclude that we're harming attendance at registered matches. I'll bet your head will explode when I tell you that our rimfire BR match fee is only $5. ;)

Seriously, two, sometimes three, of our members DO compete in registered CF matches but they have to drive pretty long distances to attend. We're not close to other clubs that have registered matches. Few of us can afford the costs to participate in distant registered matches. Because we're pretty isolated, we have very few non-members shoot in our matches and cause absolutely NO harm to registered match attendance. Average attendance at our CF BR match is 5 ~ 7. We have only 7 benches on the CF range because our club is small.

Some of our members shoot registered rimfire matches at the Montezuma Club which is not that far away. More than half of those who shoot our club matches are retired and on a fixed income. The younger members are more likely to shoot silhouette or tactical matches as BR just isn't "exciting" enough. Our match fees are designed to allow members to participate. We know from experience that raising the match fees even a few dollars will keep some away.
 
Doubs said:
I'd like to control bullet runout on my .223 hand loads to less than .0025". I use the following equipment: Rock Chucker press, Redding S-Die FL sizer and a Redding micrometer seating die. I also have a Forster outside neck turner that I use to keep neck wall thickness at .012". I use cases with the same headstamp and mostly use Nosler Custom Competition 52 grain bullets.

After sizing I usually check case neck runout before loading a case. I use an RCBS Case Master to check runout... probably not the best rig but it's one I've had for many years.

While most cartridges are within the standard I want, many exceed it and I'm not sure why.

Suggestions anyone?
Click to expand...

Looks your answer got lost in another discussion . . .

First, how do the case necks read on the runout gauge after sizing? If they are good, how are your bullets? All that being dispensed with do you have to exert a lot of force when seating bullets? That is one thing that causes runout problems. However, all things having been checked and eliminated, what is left is bullets cockeyed in the case neck. Believe me, it happens. A lot. . . .
 
bullet runout

I haven't read anything about a straight line seating die Like the wilson and other makes.
That should help a lot , to keep the ammo straight
 
Check run out on the case after it is fired, this will tell you about your chamber. Then size it that will tell you about your sizing die. By checking each stage you will find you own answer without guess work........ Jim
 
Runout

If you use a bushing die without a sizing button, unless you turn the necks to a uniform wall thickness you may actually increase bullet runout. Dave
 
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