Being Raked Over The Coals Over On 6BR Site

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
If any of you get a chance, go over to 6mmbr.com and read the tuner inquiry threadby Fred Bohl.
Man. I had no idea that I was regarded as such a self promoting, blabbering idiot when it came to tuners.
Geeze. It's a wonder I can even find which bench I am supposed to shoot from, much less manage to make two bullets touch........jackie
 
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Someone got it right at last

Well, it is refreshing to know that someone got it right about you at last. I hope they also mentioned your excessive flatus problem. As long as you are at it why don't you join the Democratic party and complete the job. All kidding aside, I did notice you wearing the shirt presented to you by your fellow BR shooters at the recent Tomball match. I believe it said Gulf Coast Shooter of the Year 2005, 2006, 2007. I hope there was room for 2008 the way you are going. Tim
 
Francis

To the contrary, Fred has been quite cordial. He has a genuine interest in learning about the use of tuners from those that use them, and those that talk about using them........jackie
 
I'm somehow not surprised. The lofty Mr Bohls, strolled into the benchrest.com forum wanting everyone to

"...asking for the existing users to:

1. Define the affected parameters.
2. Specify the procedure to be used.
3. Set the level of improvement that proves the hypothesis.""

Pretty full plate of requests for someone who is apparently above us all!!!

Hang in there Jackie....one suggestion though as Francis and I discussed...now I forgot what we decided you need to stop doing.
 
Hang in there, Jackie.

As I posted...there are those who simply choose to let the results speak for themselves. Your record over several seasons speaks volumes. What you accomplished last weekend is just further proof of that.

That you're willing to share your findings with anyone interested says a lot about your character. :)

Good shootin'. -Al
 
jackie schmidt said:
If any of you get a chance, go over to 6mmbr.com and read the tuner inquiry threadby Fred Bohl.
Man. I had no idea that I was regarded as such a self promoting, blabbering idiot when it came to tuners.
Geeze. It's a wonder I can even find which bench I am supposed to shoot from, much less manage to make two bullets touch........jackie
Click to expand...

Jackie,they just can't stand being overshadowed and out played.
All the work you have done and testing,where were they when you did the testing.
I posted over there and stated to trash a great shooter was flat wrong,anybody can write great articles but to get out and do great shooting and winning is a different story,you have been there and done that and nuff said.
 
Way To Go Jackie !!

When people start cutting you down like that, you know you have "ARRIVED!"

Ditto on what everyone said above; you 'da man!

GeneBeggs
 
Jackie between you and the other Texan [hecksf] I can't think of any bigger eye pokers out there. Just kidding:D.
 
The shooting is impressive but the cut he was taking on that dredge was no piece of cake either. Fred who??????

Mike Swartz
 
Jackie Schmidt Please Read

Jackie Schmidt

Below are the comments I have addressed to you and one in which I mentioned you. The first two are from 6mmbr forums and the last three are from Benchrest Central forums.

The first is from the offending forum were you said you were “Being Raked Over The Coals Over On 6BR Site”. If my comments were the ones that offended you, please identify the offending passages so that I might offer a proper and detailed apology for those remarks on both forums. If any of the others below also contain offensive comments please identify the offending passages so that I might offer a proper and detailed apology for those remarks on both forums as well.

In the interim please accept my sincere apology for any of these you have found offensive. I have always held you in high personal regard and admired your accomplishments as a competitor and contributions to both sites. I have always admired your willingness to explain what you were doing and particularly your willingness to share the results. If that is not what you have inferred from my posts the let me also apologize for my poor writing style.


http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2549790

Jackie Schmidt

First thank you for all your efforts and particularly for sharing the design details (revealing your designs) and results. That is what I think these forums are or at least should be about.

However you have tended to suggest in some of your posts that "proof" was aggregates in competition and while your own scores support that contention for your devise (congratulations and not meaning any nefarious intent on your part) you were winning with your proprietary tuner against competitors who were using old rules rigs without tuners. "Back in the day" that sort of experimenting was first done and competition proved in the "unlimited class" against other experimenters free of design restrictions.

Also before you and Lynn Dragoman reach for your "keyboard expert" retort, between 1959 and 1965 my mentor and I tried 12 different "muzzle device" designs on 20 barrels. After his death I stopped the experiments because I like Mike C. do not believe anything is "proved until it is predictable" or as I prefer to put it - until you make several in a row that repeat the results for others, the design is not correct and ready for market (or "prime time" for Paul).

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/6mmbr/vpost?id=2131207

I currently have 5 Weaver T36 scopes (all under $400) and only one has shown the slightest hint of POA shift so I just moved it to my Cooper .223 (least used and lowest accuracy expectation) for plinking. The others have been fine and stable as far as I can tell (I'm not in Jackie Schmidt's class). They have been good enough on my heavy 6BR to shoot several under 0.1 inch groups in a railroad tunnel (no wind or mirage).


http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50467

Jackie

Congratulations on another win. Under those conditions that win must be one of your most satisfying.

Looking at all the scores of the leaders I must say they all shot great for those conditions. Congratulations to all.

That list looks so impressive I may just have to make a pilgrimage to next years match just to watch that kind of shooting and be around such fine shooters.


http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50475

Jackie

Your reply to Lisa serves as an outstanding support to my long held belief that there is no "magic bullet" but rather that winning is based on doing more of a group of many small things extremely well.

You did leave out one of the most significant factors however. I'm sure your reputation for modesty ( ) precluded your mentioning it. Based on you latest Gulf Coast Regional Two Gun agg win under tough conditions you must admit that your ability to read and deal with the conditions, particularly amongst that field of find shooters, was a very significant factor.


http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50100

Jackie Schmidt,

Your “just go out and try it” attitude and common sense style of reporting results has been responsible for keeping this old engineer interested in the potential for tuners being “real world” useful devises. Many of the exchanges and threads on the theory of what tuners do and how they work have come very close to sounding like the pitches of snake oil salesmen and driving me away. But just at the right time you’ll throw in one of your quick comments on what you’ve done and a realistic account of what it appears to do. Then I keep reading.
 
Fred,

I saw a few comments here that inferred that you had been critical of Jackie in some way. I read over that whole 6mm BR thread and couldn't see where you said anything out of line.

Don't know if you saw it on this thread but Jackie did say " To the contrary, Fred has been quite cordial. He has a genuine interest in learning about the use of tuners from those that use them, and those that talk about using them........jackie " in response to a comment about you.

I don't think you have anything to apolgise for.

Lynn on the other hand seems to be the captain of the Bill Calfee fan club, he may be the treasurer and committe as well, and he seems to be the most critical person of anybody that has anything but praise for Bill.

Personally I think Bill has caught some flack over this whole tuner carry on simply because the man speaks in riddles and only tells half a story. Maybe he only knows half the story but if he just talked to the guys here in a normal fashion, told what he wanted to share and left it that he'd be far better received.


What fascinates me is how several guys, Bill, Lynn and a couple of others talk like they have this tuner thing sorted. Fact is that is in direct contradiction to the results that others have and some are finding the results to be both not repeatable and not predictable. As has been said, until you can do both then nobody really knows what the hell these danged barrels are doing when they are fired !!!

Interesting to read that your own testing goes back some years ! I was planning on getting a tuner and having a play on an older but still decent barrel but I think now that I will wait a bit longer until somebody convinces me they understand how to harness this concept. The mid barrel tuner seems like as good an idea as any and that has only just been touched on to date !!

Bryce
 
come ONNNNN SPRINGTIME!!! :D:D:D

'fore long this'll all be lost in the roar of SHOOTING......YAYYYYYYY :):)

Jackie and Fred I see you both as Gentlemen and look forward to meeting you both in person.


al
 
Engineer Design..

Fred, I understand what you were trying to ask when using an Engineering Design Concept..I worked in the Engineering Department in a Large medical device manufacturing company..when we were problem solving we would spend 2-6 hours in a meeting with about 6-8 Engineers and support people using Engineering Design and we went thru the what and what if questions and FMA (failure mode analsys) etc..when working on a very complex problem with an unknown resolution..What one usually gets is generalities and assumptions and FishBone diagrams...you name all of the BS..acronyms...
When we went out to try and solve the problem it was the average blue collar mechanic and electrician trying this and that and a Engineer looking over his shoulder and watching as the trial and error worked thru the problem, and then the Engineer would document all of the results using the format of Engineering Design Concept (less the trail and error part) and send it up to top managment as how we solved the problem...
In short I don't think an Engineer can anwer the questions on what material in what shape in what position will control the barrel vibrations to a predictable result that will control bullet dispersion (stopping the muzzle):cool:
Even rocket scientist still use trial and error to get to where we are today in space technology..
I once asked a Stastical Engineer to give me a math formula for the correct spacing of 1 1/4" bars on a fence gate that measure 39 1/2" inside...
He angrily replied we don't write formulas for that kind of stuff..:confused:
My answer was "What the hell good was all that math schooling for if it couldn't solve simple problems...Our working relationship went cold at that time..:rolleyes:
Give these hands on type experimentors without formal Engineering degrees enough time and they will solve the problem and then a Master/Fellow Engineer can explain it in technical terms in some Guns and Ammo article as if they came to the solution thru the scientific method of Engineering Design..
But in reality it is reverse engineering of a proven design...
 
Fred

The remarks about me being only interested in self promotion, and not caring about tuner development were edited out of the thread. Of course, you did not say that. And, as far as self promotion goes, I try to leave that to the Match Reports.
I think you have a healthy curiosity about the entire tuner thing, which springs from your formal education.. While you recognize the need for all designs to, sooner or later, match up with sound theory, you do recognize the fact that many of us have just stepped up, built something that looked like it should be affective, and went with it. Some work, others are relegated to that pile of ideas that just didn't pan out.
I know that I probably put too much emphasis on the Competitive end of shooting. But this mainly comes from the very nature of Benchrest Shooting. As I have said before, the brutal simplicity of Benchrest demands this. You shoot a group, and they measure it. What I take to the line must be predicated first, and foremost, on that fact of life.......jackie
 
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Heyyyy, I remember reading that...... :( I just assumed that I'd misremembered or that it was on a different thread.

I just gotta' stick up for Jackie on this one. Fred you owe it to all of us to be more forthright if you DID edit it, kinda' hard to identify if it's gone....... an "apology" is very different from an apology.


al
 
It was Lynn in post 6 at 6mmBR who made a derogatory reference to Jackie.

It has since been edited.
 
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