barrels

on average hw many barrels do you go through to get a great barrel to use in the bigger shoots?i have heard that some barrels are good and some are great as far as being able to shoot in the 1s and zrows as far as groups go.Tony Boyer stated in a article that 1 out of a hundred i belive was able to shoot through condistions.these were called hummer barrels.
 
The Stainless Steel now a days is not the same as when Tony said that. 2009 to 2015 were the worst years. It's mostly junk.
The foundry was making a certain type of stainless for GM. They stopped making it in 2009. Now it's junk.
 
no...a friend has a barrel in 6mm bra.it realy shoots quite well.he has gotten a few barrel since then that will no hold a candle to it as far as groups go or consistancy .they just will not shoot worth a dam.groups are in the 2s and 3s at 100 yards.his great berrel is in the 1s and 0s.this is why i asked that question.i was just wandering if others were having trouble getting great barrels .
 
The "Hummer" barrel


It is my opinion that the “Hummer” barrel exists in only one harmonic condition and here’s why.

If 100 identical barrels are identically chambered and mounted to the same rifle then we will get a few that will perform much better than the rest of them so we call them “Hummer” barrels. This is most likely because only the few “Hummer” barrels hit the absolute ideal harmonic condition on the first go.

But what happens when we place those “Hummer” barrels onto a different rifle? 99.9% of the time the barrel accuracy will not transfer equally even when using the same action. This happens because the harmonics were changed.

Harmonics are a very important aspect of accuracy because accuracy is all about repeatability.

So what makes rifle barrels have different harmonics and why do some barrels hit absolute ideal harmonic condition while others can’t?

One of the biggest factors that effects barrel harmonics is residual stress and how your barrel maker deals with this stress within the manufacturing process. Most button barrel makers perform a stress relief cycle as part of the manufacturing process and most cut barrel makers rely on the steel mill.



This is from my own experience and I will share what I have learned.

I have tested barrel steel from France, Germany, Slovakia and the USA.

I have concluded that all barrel steels have some amount of residual stress in it from the mill. It is a product of the rolling process at the mill.

Yes, the steel mills run the material through stress relief cycles but this is normally done in a production environment…. 40,000 lbs at a time in a rail bottom furnace.

Production means that they probably shorten the cycle any time they can to increase productivity.

40,000 lbs at a time means that each bar will have inconsistent results within each bundle. The bar stock ends are yet another story.:eek:

This residual stress is why cut barrels are normally contoured prior to reaming/honing and rifling. Think about it… would it not be easier to rifle and lap everything as a cylindrical blank ahead of time and then just contour and ship? It’s not done this way for a reason.:unsure:

As a button barrel maker I have developed my own pre-machine stress relief cycle on the material followed by a long soak post-machine cycle. From what I have learned I wouldn’t make a cut barrel without a stress relief cycle.


The less residual stress that is in steel the more that it will ring. I have heard of old time gunsmiths listening for barrels to “ring” but I never really believed in it until I experienced it myself by accident.

I was stacking pre-machine stress relief barrel material onto a pallet one night with the shop quiet and the machines shut down. Every time that I added a piece of material to the pallet the whole pallet would ring. I never heard this ringing sound before I started doing a pre-machine stress relief cycle on the metal.

Another thing that I have noticed is that the rack in my stress relief furnace rings. I know that it had stress in it at first because I welded it up myself and I had to beat it into position with a sledgehammer because it twisted after I tacked it up. Now that it has been through many stress relief cycles it will ring for over 5 minutes. It sounds like a big church bell if I tap it with a small brass hammer.


I know that it is old school but the “ring” test still works especially on bar stock material.

I can cut 3 pieces of barrel stock out of the center of a 12’ or 17’ bar from any steel mill and then drill a small hole perpendicular through the ends of them so they can be hung up like a wind chime.

Piece #1 Hang it up just as it came from the steel mill with nothing else done

Piece #2 Material ran through my stress relief cycles

Piece #3 Material ran through my stress relief cycles and then a cryo cycle

When I tap these pieces with a small brass hammer I can hear three very distinct music notes.

The idea of ringing cryo material came from my cryogenic contractor because he was running brass music instruments for the Indianapolis Philharmonic Orchestra. The musicians can hear a tone difference after cryogenic treatment because cryo changes the crystalline structure of the metal.

This may be more of a factor than we think as we all chase tune and harmonics.:unsure:
 
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My opinion is it's more of a case of hummer shooters than hummer barrels because the shooter ultimately has the last say. You pull that trigger at the wrong time,that barrel ain't gonna makeup for shooter error......Tony Boyer or not. That rifle only does what you tell it to do.
 
Oliver88 Thank you for sharing that information. In your test with the three bar stock blanks ring test, do the the three blanks all ring the same prior to stress relief? Do all three of the test blanks weigh exactly the same after cutting to length?
 
My opinion is it's more of a case of hummer shooters than hummer barrels because the shooter ultimately has the last say. You pull that trigger at the wrong time,that barrel ain't gonna makeup for shooter error......Tony Boyer or not. That rifle only does what you tell it to do.
I completely agree with this statement. Nobody can make a barrel that makes up for a bad wind call.


Thank you for sharing that information. In your test with the three bar stock blanks ring test, do the the three blanks all ring the same prior to stress relief? Do all three of the test blanks weigh exactly the same after cutting to length?
Yes they all ring the same prior to stress relief.
They were the same length but I never thought about weighing them... that's a great point. Thank You
I will soon be doing cryo in house so I will conduct some more tests and pass on the results.
 
We really appreciate you sharing your efforts. Many of us have tried and failed to find the answer, spent much money and many hours and sometimes we think we have it figured out but then find we were wrong again. LOL
 
My opinion is it's more of a case of hummer shooters than hummer barrels because the shooter ultimately has the last say. You pull that trigger at the wrong time,that barrel ain't gonna makeup for shooter error......Tony Boyer or not. That rifle only does what you tell it to do.
there are guys out there that know how to shoot and know when they get a hummer, set it aside and save it for big matches....me i aint good enough to know one in short range.
in long range i just replaced the bbl i won heavy score nationals with in 2021, and was having no luck with it. found one small error and have now shot 3 low 1's in the last couple of days, so i do not see a change in bbl quality.
 
This is where I believe that a tuner can help out. Once the best load is found, the tuner can be adjusted to get the barrel in the best harmonic frequency, and possibly make an average barrel have better characteristics.
 
This is where I believe that a tuner can help out. Once the best load is found, the tuner can be adjusted to get the barrel in the best harmonic frequency, and possibly make an average barrel have better characteristics.
The 2 main causes of errant shots are No. 1....shooter error and No.2....downrange condition changes the shooter was not aware of or didn't compensate for. No amount of tuning or tuner will make up for either one. The rifle only does what the shooter tells it to do.
 
The 2 main causes of errant shots are No. 1....shooter error and No.2....downrange condition changes the shooter was not aware of or didn't compensate for. No amount of tuning or tuner will make up for either one. The rifle only does what the shooter tells it to do.
you are mixing apples and oranges.
how well the rifle shoots , a tuner can fine tune for given conditions( not wind)
how well the shooter shoots..conditions
 
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The 2 main causes of errant shots are No. 1....shooter error and No.2....downrange condition changes the shooter was not aware of or didn't compensate for. No amount of tuning or tuner will make up for either one. The rifle only does what the shooter tells it to do.
Harmonics of the barrel have nothing to do with the shooters ability.
 
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