Barrel Block or No?

R

Rob Ashcraft.

Guest
OK..topic of discussion. Do you prefer barrel blocks or not? If so, why and likewise if you dont. Is the block necessitated because of the weight of the barrel in relation to the stiffness of the action and that why they came inot being? Or is there proven scientific data that shows a barrel blocked setup performs better then one without?

Has anybody out there ever taken the same barreled action and shot it blocked and without? If so, what differences did you see?

Just curious to see what the thoughts are along the two camps. Personally I have owned both, but not in the same chambering so no real apples to apples comparison.

Take care
Rob
 
Im not gonna hang a 1.450"x32" brl on my 8" BAT to find out!All I can say is the brl. blocked heavy guns all seem to shoot well.I might even show up w/a light gun built on a brl. block some day,if I can make it w/a wood stock & keep it under 17 pounds.
 
Who knows

Rob,
I have gone the route of no Barrel Block. Leonard Baity is finishing up my .300 Atlas HG and it should be finished first of next week. I looked at the Hawk’s Ridge 10 Match Aggs from 2007 & 2008 and decided that the Barrel Block had no advantage while using a BIG Action.
2008 10 Match HG Group Aggs
1) Ray Staley = No Block Big Action or Sleeved Action/Floating Barrel
2) Thomas Ellington = Barrel Block
3) Joel Pendergraft = Tension
4) Randy Peele = No Block BAT Model L
5) Mike Wilson = Barrel Block
6) Ray Lowman = ?????
7) Alvin Johnson = No Block Big Action or Sleeved Action/Floating Barrel
8) Phillip Yott = Barrel Block
9) John Maynarich = ?????
10) Debbie Yott = Barrel Block

I also figured that if the stock was originally set up for a Block it would look ugly as hell if at some point you wanted to run w/out a block at a later date. I also spoke w/ Dave Tooley and he preferred the BIG action with the Barrel Floating. With all this being said, I when with a Dual Port BAT Model L 2”x10” McMillan 50HBR w/ Shehane’s Chrome Plates and a Broughton 1-11” 1.700” for 9” tapered to 1.650” @ 32” floating. If I decide that this does not work for me I can always go back and add a block. At approx. 65# it has got to better than the 15.6# .300 Ackley w/out a muzzle brake that I had been shooting in Heavy Gun.
Baron
 
Ok

Baron..what is the 300 Atlas?

I thought my HG barrel was a truck axle! My 300WSM and 7 BooBoo are both 1.750 tapered to 1.450 at muzzle and I have another on the way that is a tapered 1.450 to 1.250. These all go on the 2x10 Bat. I had an 1.470 Nesika K that was set up in one of Leonards blocks. But curiousity got the best of me and I built one up without the block.

Charles Wooten also shoots HG very well and if memory serves me, his is a 10" Bat without a block. Also, Big Blue is a 10" Bat with a huge chunk of steel hanging off the end. Not sure if Danny has it bedded out under the barrel any or not.

What about stock material? I have always ran laminated wood in both LG and HG. Anyone ever stocked the same barreled action in aluminum, fiberglass and wood to see how the dispersion went? Does one medium favor the block and the other a non-block?

Subzero days sure makes the wheels turn! :D

Take care
Rob
 
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Atlas

The Atlas is my new secret weapon!!!!!!! Naw, just another .300 WBY Improved. .300 Ackley with .156" FB. and Tapered NK.
 
Barrel weight?

What is the weight of those 1.700 X 30"-32" barrels?

A shot out barrel would provide enough material for 3 to 4 BIG receivers.

Thanks,

Jay
 
Jay,
1.700" Staight for 32" should be approx. 20 Lbs.
 
Weight

About what mine weighs as well. Is 416 suitable for an action?

Rob
 
No Block

I am finishing up my H/G now and I did not put a block on it. Has Bat 2x10 action with 36in 1.450 kreiger that is fully floated. There are guns at Hawks Ridge that shoot consistant with out barrel blocks. I'm pretty sure Kerry Vinson shoots A H/G with out a barrel block he always shoots good with it. Randy Peele shot a group the last match of the year in the 3's. He has a few heavy guns and one has no barrel block it's on a 2x10 bat. it was shooting good this year, I'm not for sure which gun he shot that group with. The others have barrel blocks and they shoot good to.
 
2/3 of mine have blocks

I just finished a my HG in .300 Win. imp. with a glue-in block. I used a BAT M round 1.55" and figured it would be much easier to bed and inlet my stock if I used a block. It all went pretty smoothly and I think from the building aspect I would do it that way again. I am also building a second LG with a glue-in block on a BAT SV. Both of these are going in laminate stocks. As far as how they shoot I haven't gotten far enough to decide for me but I see a lot of blocked rifles here in CO shoot really well. Daryl Kopriva and Regan Green have both shot blocked rifles here with great success. Joe & Christina Thielen shoot a blocked rifle very well. I have a feeling that it may not be that huge of a factor since many people do well in each configuration.
 
My guess is the tuning window might be wider with a barrel blocked gun since the barrel in effect is shorter but that would be comparing like contours. A barrel blocked gun with a smaller contour barrel (1.250 straight) is the most economical way to go and you can save money by using a cheaper action than the 10" BAT. Those big diameter barrels and 10" BATs are mucho $$$ and while they look cool they don't shoot any better than the smaller diameter barrels that are barrel blocked.
 
Time to win the Lotto!

OK, from what I am gathering here, with much appreciation to the contributors, is that both systems shoot well...and I agree. I have seen fine shooting HGs in both configurations. Matt Dienes' 300WSM blocked and Danny Brooks 300Win non-blocked were two that always seem to come into mind. Regan Green has also shot lights out with his 30 Valkyrie.

Time to win the Lotto and build two stocks. Hopefully when this happens I can get the stocks can be cut from the same piece of stock. Dont know if the stockmakers can get two HG stocks from one piece, but I hope so. One setup with barrel block and the other non-blocked. Get two barrels from the same lot from any of the great barrels avaiable out there and have them chambered identical. Take the first barrel and run it first in the blocked stock for x number of rounds and then switch to the non-block for x number of rounds. Take the second barrel and run them vice versa in the stocks. Using the same method to establish tune for both barrel and stock configuration. Anyone have additional input and reasoning to the design of this experiment? What would be the most controlled tune method?

Thanks
Rob
 
Rob...

Didn't we do this test?

Remember the relay from hell with the heavy wind? Your blocked 6.5mm in the laminated MBR stock and my floated 6.5mm 2x8.5" BAT in the laminated MBR stock? Don't think you will get a much better comparison than that unless you do like you say and build two stocks.


Jeff
 
Rob,
I will throw out my experience on this from years ago on an experiment that my old shooting buddy did years ago.

Is the block necessitated because of the weight of the barrel in relation to the stiffness of the action and that why they came inot being?

Rob,
I would say yes to this question. When I first started going to Williamsport years ago, custom action were unheard of and 1.25" diameter x 30" was probably the biggest barrel any manufacturer made at that time that I'm aware of. So the block was probably designed to handle the "bigger" barrels on the std sized actions of that time.

Or is there proven scientific data that shows a barrel blocked setup performs better then one without?

I own block guns, glued sleeve guns, and fully floated with big custom actions. Each have their own little personalities. But when it's all said and done from watching, shooting, and listening all these years... I personally don't see an advantage of one over the other. See exception below....

Has anybody out there ever taken the same barreled action and shot it blocked and without? If so, what differences did you see?

Yes and no ( this is not full floated to barrel block!!), What we did was in the late '80 early '90s?? My old shooting buddy had Ken Kleinendorst build a 30KK (308 Baer for all intents and purposes) using a straight untapered 1.350 barrel that was at least 30" long. It was glued into the barrel channel of a Hall pattern Sixx stock and the action was free floated and the scope was mounted on the action. The action was one of the old solid bottom AIII Sako actions. I own this action still and it's on my old glued sleeve 6.5-300 Win Mag.
Anyway this rifle was fired in all 10 matches and all shots were on paper and the yearly agg was 16"?? inches. Don't remember exact numbers, it's was awhile ago. Over the winter the barreled action was removed from that stock (not rechambered or setback at all) and dropped into a barrel block and fired the entire 10 match agg the next year. Don't remember the exact aggs again... but it went down by 4-5" from the previous year. But the overall average of the 2 yearly aggs for all qualified shooters stayed roughly the same. So it wasn't like it was a bad conditions for the bedded barrel aggregate and then great condition for the agg the year the barrel block was used. So in that case a block over glued in barrel in the barrel channel was on improvement. FYI: When the glued barrle channel rifle has a flyer it was almost always up and down and toward the end of the 10 shot string. Just an interesting fact I remember after reviewing all of Bob's target over the winter.

Bob wasn't a machine gunner, but he stayed smooth and steady. I would guess his normal bench precedure was 10 shots in 45-50 secs.

I do beleve the speed that you shoot these different shooting systems influeneces the outcome of these tests.

I currently use the flaoting method with the big BAT action for ease of changing barrels/calibers. I put the extra money into the 2x10 BAT rather than the barrel block is all... per Dave's suggestion when we talked about putting it togehter. I don't feel I've regretted that decision.

..... what is it that Dave always says, "everything is a compromise"! keep that in mind in your persuit of the "perfect" system.

Steve
 
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“I currently use the flaoting method with the big BAT action for ease of changing barrels/calibers. I put the extra money into the 2x10 BAT rather than the barrel block is all... per Dave's suggestion when we talked about putting it togehter.” Steve Shelp


Steve,
Those were my thoughts exactly. I also spoke w/ Dave. The price for the block easily covers the price difference in the M & MB verses the Model L 2”x10”. The only price difference in the entire HG would be the cost of the Barrel Blanks (approx. $200 - $250).
 
Thanks for all the input

Interesting concept to glue the barrel into the channel.

As I get older I come to find pursuing perfection may prove frustrating. Kinda like trying to catch my daughter's pony when he doesnt want to come in to the barn. Have found the best solution to that problem is to find a nice spot on the hillside to lie down on and let curiousity get the best of him. Now I am starting to get all Zen like! lol

Anyway, keep the ideas and stories rolling. One day I will get this lil experiment of mine done, but for now it makes good fireside banter.

Take care
Rob
 
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