are there/is there any 6.5's that are competitive in short or long range br ?

[CMaier]

i know the 260 does well in some large target matches,
and lots of noise about the 6.5 creedmore,
but are there any competitive 6.5's in BENCHREST ?
short or long range.

 

[jackie schmidt]

i know the 260 does well in some large target matches,
and lots of noise about the 6.5 creedmore,
but are there any competitive 6.5's in BENCHREST ?
short or long range.

The 6.5x284 is extremely effective at 600 and 1000 yard Benchrest.

The combination of good velocity and high BC is a great combination.

As far short range, no. Not to say it could not be with great bullets in the proper weight range mated with the correct capacity case.
Just not at this time.

 

[Jim Pag]

i know the 260 does well in some large target matches,
and lots of noise about the 6.5 creedmore,
but are there any competitive 6.5's in BENCHREST ?
short or long range.

There is one guy from NY who shot a handful of short range score matches up here in Maine last year with a 6.5x47, but he finished at the bottom of the pack with it each time he shot.

 

[glp]

Pag

There is one guy from NY who shot a handful of short range score matches up here in Maine last year with a 6.5x47, but he finished at the bottom of the pack with it each time he shot.

and didn't Larry Fusse from Michigan fool with one for a while, back some time ago?

 

[R.G. Robinett]

and didn't Larry Fusse from Michigan fool with one for a while, back some time ago?

Yes! Larry purchased the [bullet] dies from [the late] Roy Oines, who tried them in Hunter Rifles for a couple of seasons - his progress was jinxed because he'd opted for twist rates which were just a little too slow for the 85-90 Gr. bullets.

Larry got it together and did well for a while, then, went quiet - maybe just got too busy! Larry was using a 6.5 Grendel based cartridge, which he called the 6.5 Gorilla. As I recall, Larry won/placed/showed at various group events, while keeping the Gorilla on a short leash.

I put a 6.5x47 barrel on the #1 BAT Hunter Rifle last spring, but shot it in only one event, winning the 200 Yd., and the 200/300 Grand, after "tuning" it (using a ShadeTree tuner) during the 100Yd. stage. It was an extemely windy day at Desoto, KS, and prior to the event, I had not fired a shot through the new barrel (Bartlein).

I picked a charge weight of H-4350, with my new 135 Gr. BT 0.020" off the, "just touch", and moved the tuner after each three/four shots, until it, "fell together" - the last 100 Yd. target a decent 50. Pals had advised that it should tune within 1/4 turn or so - that proved correct - it began shooting just shy of 1/4 turn down-range.

The new 6.5x47Hunter won the 200 decisively, posting one very pretty 50-5X - counting the lone sighter on that card, 6X! That target, was a run&gun affair which worked. Once tuned, it showed potential, which I intend to explore during the upcoming season, albeit, with somewhat lighter projectiles.

Following that event, I removed the barrel, and never got back to it, so further tuning/tweaking with powder charge and seating depth, didn't happen. I chose 0.020" off, because all of my, "guinea pigs" (testers - all long range fans) had gotten the tightest groups (six different rigs: 6.5x47;.260 Rem.; 6.5 Creedmoor chamberings) at about that seating-depth. In all, I was impressed with both the cartridge and the tuner . . and, of course, the Bartlein barrel. RG

 

[Mike Bryant]

Here's a link to an article about Don Nielsen winning the 2007 600 yard NBRSA Nationals shooting a 6.5x47 Lapua. http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek079/

 

[jim1K]

The only long range 6.5 you will see that has done any good is the 6.5x47 that has set a couple of records in heavy this year at 1000 with very few using a 6.5 284. The 6mm. has dominated the light gun class as the 30 wsm the heavy. At 600 the 6mm is used with success at both light and heavy....... jim

 

[R.G. Robinett]

Here are some wind-drift comparisons, based, respectively, upon a 6mm bullet (generous .27 BC), at 3400 FPS, vs. a thirty cal bullet (realistic .32 BC) at 3000 FPS, at sea-level, Std conditions, in a 10 MPH wind:100 Yd. 1.0" vs. 0.9"; 200 Yd. 4.1" vs. 4.0"; 300Yd. 9.7" vs 9.5" - the thirty wins at every yardage.

Especially beyond 100 Yd., the [so called] thirty Cal. scoring advantage is highly over-rated! Since we shoot at a radial target, using round projectiles, the advantage is only 1/2 the .065” difference in diameter, or, 0.0325”.

Dividing the total wind-drift by 10, we get, respectively, at 200 yd., 0.41” vs 0.40” per mile an hour change in wind velocity: this is 12.5 times the, “scoring advantage” (.4/.0325) ! Who can dope 1 MPH of wind velocity? Then again, on a given day, try winning when making 2.0 MPH judgement errors.

Again, especially beyond 100 Yd., the advantage lies in reliable, consistent precision. The perceived advantage, as Yogi Berra may have mused, “is 90% mental, and the rest is between our ears.”! Keep 'em ON the X! RG

 

[jim1K]

Randy, run the numbers with a heavier 6mm bullet and check the numbers the wind drift is half for the 6mm at 300 ....... jim

 

[R.G. Robinett]

Randy, run the numbers with a heavier 6mm bullet and check the numbers the wind drift is half for the 6mm at 300 ....... jim

This would be close to correct: "been there done that, got the T-shirts"! Within my peer group, it didn't, it didn't even ripple the glass smooth surface. Still, the BC advantage isn't all it appears to be exploiting THAT would require a more incremental target!

I only wanted to point out that the bullet diameter issue (best edge advantage), is scant: on a given day, providing only a subtle edge, and then, only if one is trying to win.

The actual wind-drift, for the usual point-blank cartridge/bullet choices, is, a comparatively dead heat. And, at 200 Yd., presuming a constant vector, a mere 1/2 MPH change is velocity equates to something over six times the [so called] scoring advantage. RG

 

[jim1K]

Yes sir Randy a Dasher at 300 is over kill with a 1.5" 10 ring....... lol...... jim

 

[jackie schmidt]

Yes sir Randy a Dasher at 300 is over kill with a 1.5" 10 ring....... lol...... jim

We are now having 300 yard Group and Score Matches at Walker County in Huntsville Texas, and last year, it was an even split between the 30BR's and Fast Twist 6's in Score. A 30BR was 1st, a 6BR was 2d, a 30BR was 3d, and a Dasher was 4th.

In group, it was no contest. 6PPC's ruled the day.

When shooting over flags, (and if you know what you are doing), at 300 yards, precision still trumps all other considerations.

 

[R.G. Robinett]

Jim, no disrespect intended - point-blank isn't as easy as the math makes it appear! A [roughly] 1/2 "MOA" ten-ring, remains ample, but, difficult: the X-dot, at 300 Yd. (3/16") is, even with a decent ZERO and dope, just luck. Perhaps you have already demonstrated the apparent advantage of HIGH BC bullets at "close range" - if so, forgive my ignorance.

When, throughout the 2013 1nd 2014 seasons, I set out to capitalize on .500+ BC, at NBRSA registered 1/2/300 Yd. events, all I could muster was a, "wash": I won some, and lost some. In those where i doped well enough to win/place/show, using the 500+ BC bullets, I' d have posted equal scores using the more traditional - .32-.34 BC - bullets! A good read and good execution shot a ten, or, X. A not so good dope - as in, "it'll go" - shot a nine. The shooters on either side of me, on their misses, generally, shot uglier nines, . . . the score keeper didn't distinguish between a good nine and a poor nine!

I do not know an individual who can accurately identify the wind velocity, but plenty, who, with flags/mirage, can identify a specific condition - "there it is" - and execute a good shot. Regardless of BC, at P-B benchrest tournaments, the latter individuals consistently win/place/show. In my experience, LR and P-B have proven to be different animals.

The BIG lesson: there's a BIG difference between, "it'll go", and, "there it is"! RG

 

[jackie schmidt]

I do not know an individual who can accurately identify the wind velocity, but plenty, who, with flags/mirage, can identify a specific condition - "there it is" - and execute a good shot. Regardless of BC, at P-B benchrest tournaments, the latter individuals consistently win/place/show

Now Randy, don't be giving away EVERYTHING.

 

[jim1K]

Jim, no disrespect intended - point-blank isn't as easy as the math makes it appear! A [roughly] 1/2 "MOA" ten-ring, remains ample, but, difficult: the X-dot, at 300 Yd. (3/16") is, even with a decent ZERO and dope, just luck. Perhaps you have already demonstrated the apparent advantage of HIGH BC bullets at "close range" - if so, forgive my ignorance.

When, throughout the 2013 1nd 2014 seasons, I set out to capitalize on .500+ BC, at NBRSA registered 1/2/300 Yd. events, all I could muster was a, "wash": I won some, and lost some. In those where i doped well enough to win/place/show, using the 500+ BC bullets, I' d have posted equal scores using the more traditional - .32-.34 BC - bullets! A good read and good execution shot a ten, or, X. A not so good dope - as in, "it'll go" - shot a nine. The shooters on either side of me, on their misses, generally, shot uglier nines, . . . the score keeper didn't distinguish between a good nine and a poor nine!

I do not know an individual who can accurately identify the wind velocity, but plenty, who, with flags/mirage, can identify a specific condition - "there it is" - and execute a good shot. Regardless of BC, at P-B benchrest tournaments, the latter individuals consistently win/place/show. In my experience, LR and P-B have proven to be different animals.

The BIG lesson: there's a BIG difference between, "it'll go", and, "there it is"! RG

Randy, i never saw flags that are as reliable as reading the mirage for speed and the flags for direction, no body can see a 1mph wind change. Plus you can't read it through your scope , you need a spotting scope...... jim

 

[Wilbur]

Any cartridge would be competitive if it shot straight enough. The reason folks tend to shoot the same stuff is that more of the same stuff shoots straighter than other stuff. It's all about the "stuff"...and yes...some stuff is better than other stuff when compared widely.

 

[R.G. Robinett]

Nothing unusual here . . .

Any cartridge would be competitive if it shot straight enough. The reason folks tend to shoot the same stuff is that more of the same stuff shoots straighter than other stuff. It's all about the "stuff"...and yes...some stuff is better than other stuff when compared widely.

Wilbur, as usual, has reduced it to the simplest terms! What ya gotta decide, is whether you're a conformist, or a heretic, and which is more fun. RG

 

[Wilbur]

Just from what I know, which ain't much, both are having some kind of fun doing whatever they like to do.

 

[JerrySharrett]

Wilbur, as usual, has reduced it to the simplest terms! What ya gotta decide, is whether you're a conformist, or a heretic, and which is more fun. RG

Being a "Monkey see, Monkey do" never was much fun.

Hellsbells, build the wall a great big hugh monstrous wall, I say.

/

 

[LARRY FEUSSE]

Just saw this thread and thought I would comment. I broke my ankle recently, so I am sitting at home recovering for a few more weeks.
I have done more work with the 6.5 than most anyone that I know of. Had some good luck earlier on, like Randy said, with a 6.5 BR, 12 twist Krieger, my own or Bill Browand's 95 grain bullets. The problem I had was with getting good scoring. I laid off it for quite a while, on and off, and picked it up again last year, but for score only.
I also got a real good set of dies, made by a friend, that gives me true benchrest quality bullets. The problem with making bullets has always been getting good jackets. We had J4 talked in to making some .900 jackets at one time, but I couldn't buy enough at a time to keep them happy. They ended up scrapping the remains of the lot. I have a few left over jackets to make a few more bullets, but without good jackets, there is no way to expand the interest.
My best set up right now is a HV Muller 12 twist barrel, my own 85 grain bullets, V133, moving about 3350 -3500 fps.It is great for score where less wind sensitivity and higher bc wins the game over best precision, especially at 200 yds. For lighter conditions, my 30 is more accurate.
For best precision, a light recoiling gun in a real good bag set up, that is very resistant to gun handling mistakes, is what I have learned is best for Group. That means 6PPC with 65-68 gr bullets that run in a moderate velocity, like 3360 fps. I have found that the higher you go with velocity, the harder it is to keep in tune.

If anyone wants more information on the 6.5 br and wants to overcome the obstacles, or try, call me at 989-513-3702.

Other than that, listen to Randy. He has more knowledge and skill with this kind of thing than anyone I know.