An interresting way to hold matches with no moving backers.

J

Joe Krupa

Member
With the advent of the NBRSA trying VFS to their match scheduling for 2010 there have been quite a few ranges asking for information about how to run not only score matches, but how to migrate to holding group matches, if there is a desire to do so.

Of course, registered group matches require a moving backer system. But, if there is a range that hasn't added them yet, or needs to generate some interest (and funds) first, there seems to be a gap in getting from Point A to Point B. Plus, sometimes a range wants to "stick their toes in the water" first to see if running these matches is something they want to grow with.

Well, the Lake Isabella Sportsmans Club near Mt. Pleasant, Michigan has come up with what looks to me like a very interesting way to bridge that gap in the interim. Lake Isabella has a range that goes out to 300 yards. (And the range is within a short drive to the Soaring Eagle Casino in Mt. Pleasant!)

On May 8th they are holding an unregistered match. That match will be two yardages. It will also be a little bit of both VFS score and group shooting. The match starts at 9:00 AM. And the match will accomodate both factory class and varmint class being 13 1/2 pounds.

The course of fire will be both a 100-yard VFS score match and a 300-yard GROUP match. If anyone has ever shot 300 yards, you may note that there is very little need to verify five shots with a backer at that range. (For those of you who need a sight-in there will be a 100-yard target board.) The cost is $30.00, which includes plaques and a range-supplied lunch.

The range has acquired Holton's old moving backer system, but they want to see if it makes sense to go forward with moving toward registered matches. And this effort looks like it could be a very common sense way to try this out.

Anyone wishing more information on this match on May 8th can contact Steve Robbins at (989) 644-8801.
 
Lookin' forward to it...

There are two separate ranges, side by side. The factory rifle shooters will start at 100 yds. in the morning while, at the same time, the benchrest rifle shooters will shoot the 300 yd.group match next door on the 300 yd. range. There are ten good benches on each range and Steve is planning on two relays. Should more than 20 BR shooters and 20 factory rifle shooters show up, there will be a Plan B.

There will be at least two Super Shoot winners and LOTS of Hall of Fame points represented.

Her Loveliness, Glorya Wright, as she was last fall, will be the range officer and Big Al Walewski and I will handle the scoring. Steve's PA system will make controling two ranges at once very easy. It's like twenty benches, side by side.

Dick Wright
 
Most of the matches in this area...

start at 10 AM. This one will start at NINE AM because we will be shooting two aggs. Lunch (on Steve and Marge) will be served during the break.

Steve will be spending the next two days at the range getting everything ready. If you have any questions and can't get him, call me at 989-386-3932. I'll be home more than he will.

Dick Wright
 
Slight correction...

The name of the club is The Isabella County Sportsmen's Club (ICSC). It is on Winn Rd. aprox 4 miles south of M-20. (West of Mt. Pleasant). If you are coming from Mt. Pleasant, simply go west on M-20 to Winn Rd. and turn south. The club is on a corner on the east side of the road and will be hard to miss.

Steve will have the gates open at 7 AM. Glorya and I will be there as soon as I can get Her Loveliness out of bed. Anyone lost can call Steve on his cell at 989-444-1943 or Glorya on her's at 989-424-1100.

This club has great facilities and should become a regular stop on Michigan's benchrest circuit.

See you Saturday.

Dick
 
Joe Krupa said:
If anyone has ever shot 300 yards, you may note that there is very little need to verify five shots with a backer at that range.
Click to expand...

Joe
I think you are going to find this is not as simple as you think, IBS had to retire the single record bull 300yd Score target back in 1997 because shooters were shooting so well even back then that 5 shots frequently were not identifiable as 5 shots, they frequently looked only like 3 or 4. I remember well perusing many targets where the best you could pick out was 4 shots, and no it was not just the occasional person who miscounted his shots. I remember well the first match at a local club that because of it's layout only held 300yd. matches that I was winning by enough points that I sacrificed one point by sending a 6th shot downrange when I knew very well I had already fired 5 shots but was only sure 4 could be seen and I was pretty sure I could at least shoot a 9 (which is what I did).

Dick
 
Joe, I think it is really great that the shooters in Michigan have quite a few matches to choose from. In Oscoda we are shooting a 200yd/300yd score match on the same day that Steve is having his match. A few years ago 300yd matches were unheard of in Michigan. Now we have choices. Good luck to you all and if we were not already scheduled I would see you there. I will talk to you soon. Tom
 
Hey Tom

I heard snow showers are forecasted in your neck of the woods Saturday. Good luck n stay warm! Come on over to Harrison next week and teach me how to shoot group. I promise it will be sunny and 70. :D
 
Dick...

The 300 yd. match is group. We will shoot score in the afternoon at either 100 or 200 yds.

We shot 300 yd. group there last fall without backers. There were quite a few small groups but none that contained less than five shots. Lowell Hottenstein won last fall, the same person who just won the Hog Roast.

Given the weather forecast, I doubt if we will have a problem with mirage. The range looks like a golf course anyway, it's so well groomed.

Dick
 
Harrison Weather

THE SUN ALWAYS SHINES IN HARRISON...


Harrison Chamber Of Commerce
 
dickw22 said:
The 300 yd. match is group. We will shoot score in the afternoon at either 100 or 200 yds.

We shot 300 yd. group there last fall without backers. There were quite a few small groups but none that contained less than five shots. Lowell Hottenstein won last fall, the same person who just won the Hog Roast.

Given the weather forecast, I doubt if we will have a problem with mirage. The range looks like a golf course anyway, it's so well groomed.

Dick
Click to expand...

Of course the match is group, do you think I cannot read ? But when you shoot a score match at 300 yards on a single bull target all you are doing is shooting group with the added emphasis on trying to get the group in the center of the target. And you speak of one isolated incident of doing this previously , I speak from 5 years of shooting this situation 4 times a year or more. And obviously this problem does not happen all the time, most of the time they will be fine. I am simply telling Joe if the shooters and equipment here in Maryland and Pennsylvania were good enough to get some bullets through the exact same hole 10 years ago you guys in Michigan are going to find that it becomes a problem from time to time .
 
Thanks for the input; point is well taken.

Lake Isabella is simply today trying to get things started and "test the waters". The match tomorrow is unregistered - in effect, an "honors" match. If someone needs to win by shooting four shots, they will have to face the music sometime down the road when the next match holds more significance. I only hope that the biggest problem that the range has is that it looks like there may be only four shots in a group.

The range has acquired Holton's old moving backer system and MAY decide to try to register a group match in the future. Until then everyone knows up front that this is an unregistered match and accepts everything that goes with it by signing up and shooting.

Heck, the only match that I have shot beyond 200 yards was at 300 meters in South Africa last year. For the first four targets I was really trying hard to just get a "group" under an inch. I finally did it on the last target with a .998.

Thanks again for the insight. Everything is good.
 
Whenever this subject comes up, I feel compelled to remind folks that the solution to this problem was found years ago--before there was an internet so maybe some folks have not heard it. The solution was proposed by one of the local club members who shot rimfire BR and also centerfire short range group.

The only club I can drive to now, and the one my friend belonged to, was and is so poor that it cannot afford to invest money in making moving backer support when the revenue from potential matches is questionable. Heck! this club is so poor we can't afford a 200 yard range, we have to settle for 196!!!!! But I digress. The solution is to change the group target into something similar to, but not exactly like a an IBS hunter target. Since we already migrate from sighter to score bulls in a match, why not change the target to nothing but a vertical series of what we now use as practice bulls? A cluster of sighters--3 should suffice -- could form the bottom sighter target and 5 scoring bulls spaced vertically from there would complete the target group. A tiny dot similar to that used on IBS hunter targets would center each bull. Groups would be measured from the dot to the worst edge of each bullet hole and adjusted for caliber. The old sighting square would be abandoned __ heresy!!! I know...still..........for 100 and 200 this would surely work and probably 300 too. This should certainly be a viable solution in the age of coaxial front rests and speed screws--which we did not have back when he suggested this.
 
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No worries here

I'm sure there won't be a problem. A bunch of stand up guys around these parts. I guess I don't know anyone that would cheat over a few bucks being put back in their pocket.
You guys have a good shoot. On my way up to Oscoda the weather man was saying there is a chance for 4" of snow over night. I really hope I was listening to a U.P. station.

Matt guthrie
 
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