I think i may buy one of those evil black rifles everyone is all in love with this summer, but i dont really know the first thing about them. I would like to have a varmint model that i can put one of those picatinny rails on the forearm so i can hunt coyotes at night. I also want this rifle to be here in case the world we live in ever goes to pot! I want to be able to protect my family. I am an accuracy junky so it has to be as accurate as possible. Can anyone here suggest for me a AR with what i have asked for? thanks Lee
Accurate AR???
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
F
Feral
Guest
Consider a Mk12 Mod 0 or Mod 1 style rifle. Can be very accurate without being overly heavy. BCM has a spotty record on delivering "good" barrels, but the average one should get you to 1MOA out to a couple hundred yards w/o too much trouble.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Articles.asp?ID=145
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Articles.asp?ID=145
W
williev18
Guest
try the stag arms line up, they make some very good varinter's, with alot of options from light quick rifles to very heavy prarie dog whackers.
Skeet - I just purchased a Rock River Arms Varmint A4 with 24 inch barrel fom PK firearms in Shelbyville, IL - close to your Mattoon location. I just placed a Harris bipod and Nikon 6.5x20 scope on it and am very pleased with it's accuracy - in fact going to use it at the upcoming VHA Wabash IN varmint shoot in a couple of weeks instead of my Savage LRPV in 223. I've been shooting Varget and Hornady 75 grain match bullets.
O
okbob51
Guest
Several years ago I had the same dilemma. After my research I bought a Rock River Arms lower with 2 stage Nat. Match trigger and a White Oak Armament Varmint upper. John Holliger from WOA was great to work with and really knows ARs. The price was about that of a Bushmaster or Rock River varminter. It works great and is made with the best parts by gunsmiths that really care. Mine is a 1/2 - 3/4 " shooter. The semi-auto makes it devastating on a pd village. Check out the their website.
1
1919Spooky
Guest
i might look at those 28in 1:6.5 kregier varmatch barrels so you can shoot 90 gr vlds
Boyd Allen
Active member
It would seem that this guy knows quite a bit about building accurate ARs.
http://www.6mmar.com/6mmAR_Prices.html
You might want to look around on his web site. Also, there was a Gun of The Week article that you will find here.
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek090.html
One thing that may not be mentioned in the article is that he loctites his barrel extension into his uppers, which is a nice touch if you are trying to wring the last little bit from a given set of high end parts.
Boyd
http://www.6mmar.com/6mmAR_Prices.html
You might want to look around on his web site. Also, there was a Gun of The Week article that you will find here.
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek090.html
One thing that may not be mentioned in the article is that he loctites his barrel extension into his uppers, which is a nice touch if you are trying to wring the last little bit from a given set of high end parts.
Boyd
Lee...Lee...Lee...just when I thought we had you focused on the straight and narrow road to BR stardom......your attention is diverted again....by an AR none the less (insert unhappy face) I'm more than a little disappointed here ( insert ANOTHER unhappy face). You need bench-time, there's bullets, powder and barrels to buy ...and burn..... but single shot only. If you need for home protection....shorten one of them there skeet guns. (insert smiley)
LH
My folks built a new house on one of our farms and dad wants a rifle to shoot coyotes with, and i kinda want an ar type rifle so this is another reason for all the questions. i dont own a single factory rifle any more. I had to sell them all to afford the custom rifle i have. I will also admit that trying to get a factory rifle to shoot small groups sounds at least a little appealing. I already pretty much know how the ppc is going to shoot before i go to the range so having a factory rifle to throw in the mix might just brake up the monotony?? Also there are a couple shoots just east of me that you need a factory rifle if your going to compete for the 2 gun award, so it isnt all a big waste of time. Dad is most likely going to pick up the tab on this one so what the heck!! He wants a 30-06 and i definitely do not. Way to big for around here. I already bough him a Springfield 1911 45 acp two years ago for x-mas so i am thinking the AR would be an easy sell. I just dont want a chrome lined shoot em up type AR, i want one that will actually shoot a little. I showed him some rock river varmint rifles over the weekend and he seemed a little interested at least.
I will admit that i am by no means an AR fan but i do think they have a little something to offer. 5 years ago when i had a little Olympic arms 16" varmint rifle i killed more coyotes that year than the last 4 years combined. I think they are the perfect set up for calling coyotes. I just don't know much about these types of rifles so i thought i would ask. Ultimately it will be up to pops, as he is paying at least half the bill. We are in the middle of building a new rifle range behind the new house so he needs something to play with there as well.
My reloading press i currently have is an old rcbs Jr model that belonged to him when i was a kid. He used to load 30-06 for all his old military rifles he had before the fire. The press survived but the rifles are no longer safe to shoot, as far as we can tell anyway. we cleaned them up the best we could but we just keep them in the back of the safe now. anyway i am trying my darnedest to re-spark his interest. He now builds street rods from the ground up so i am not holding my breath. I appreciate the razzing though, i actually figured it was coming!! LOL!! You will be glad to know that i have been shooting some of that new pull down lot of 8208 with terrific results!! I love that stuff!!! I just hope it keeps shooting when its 100 degrees out!! Lee
My folks built a new house on one of our farms and dad wants a rifle to shoot coyotes with, and i kinda want an ar type rifle so this is another reason for all the questions. i dont own a single factory rifle any more. I had to sell them all to afford the custom rifle i have. I will also admit that trying to get a factory rifle to shoot small groups sounds at least a little appealing. I already pretty much know how the ppc is going to shoot before i go to the range so having a factory rifle to throw in the mix might just brake up the monotony?? Also there are a couple shoots just east of me that you need a factory rifle if your going to compete for the 2 gun award, so it isnt all a big waste of time. Dad is most likely going to pick up the tab on this one so what the heck!! He wants a 30-06 and i definitely do not. Way to big for around here. I already bough him a Springfield 1911 45 acp two years ago for x-mas so i am thinking the AR would be an easy sell. I just dont want a chrome lined shoot em up type AR, i want one that will actually shoot a little. I showed him some rock river varmint rifles over the weekend and he seemed a little interested at least.
I will admit that i am by no means an AR fan but i do think they have a little something to offer. 5 years ago when i had a little Olympic arms 16" varmint rifle i killed more coyotes that year than the last 4 years combined. I think they are the perfect set up for calling coyotes. I just don't know much about these types of rifles so i thought i would ask. Ultimately it will be up to pops, as he is paying at least half the bill. We are in the middle of building a new rifle range behind the new house so he needs something to play with there as well.
My reloading press i currently have is an old rcbs Jr model that belonged to him when i was a kid. He used to load 30-06 for all his old military rifles he had before the fire. The press survived but the rifles are no longer safe to shoot, as far as we can tell anyway. we cleaned them up the best we could but we just keep them in the back of the safe now. anyway i am trying my darnedest to re-spark his interest. He now builds street rods from the ground up so i am not holding my breath. I appreciate the razzing though, i actually figured it was coming!! LOL!! You will be glad to know that i have been shooting some of that new pull down lot of 8208 with terrific results!! I love that stuff!!! I just hope it keeps shooting when its 100 degrees out!! Lee
Skeet,
Give me a call tomorrow sometime. I packed one for 24yrs and competed for close to 10yrs with them. Shot about every brand made and/or modified. It all depends on what you want to spend. I have one here you can shoot and we might be able to work something out on a trade for concrete work.
Hovis
Give me a call tomorrow sometime. I packed one for 24yrs and competed for close to 10yrs with them. Shot about every brand made and/or modified. It all depends on what you want to spend. I have one here you can shoot and we might be able to work something out on a trade for concrete work.
Hovis
O
Octopus
Guest
Back several years ago I worked on a few special projects with Gene Stoner. (Not gun related) He got me to try one of the early M-4 ARs. Shooting the Stoner M-4 off the concrete table at 100 yards with the factory 16" barrel I found it would agg as low as .25 using hand made bench rest bullets. With 60 gr V-Max bullets it would agg under 1/2". I shot several 10 shot groups in 5 or 6 seconds that were under 1/2". Most of the time I was using a 36D Leupold scope and the trigger was a single stage trigger set at 5 to 8 ounces. Very crisp and very light. This allowed for a very fast fire rate in the semi auto mode.
After several years and over 2,000 rounds down the tube the little M-4 will still agg under 3/4".
My good friend has built several rifles on the AR-15 platform including 222, 223, 6.5 BR and the 458 SoCom. With 26 to 28" target barrels the 222, 223 and 6.5 BR will all shoot down to 1/4". So far we have not been able to get a setup that will agg much below the 1/4". I think this may be the lower limit due to the platform design.
The 222 barrel is set up as a bolt rifle, i.e. no gas blow back and it still seems to be limited to about 1/4".
The short barrel M-4 with a quality barrel seems to be almost as good as the longer, heavier target barrels with the free floating forearm. I think this is because the short barrel is stiff and the bullet dwell time is less.
For sure the AR are fun to shoot. But more difficult to shoot bug holes with than the bolt rifles. With the M-4 a coyote in an open field area has a hard time leaving.
After several years and over 2,000 rounds down the tube the little M-4 will still agg under 3/4".
My good friend has built several rifles on the AR-15 platform including 222, 223, 6.5 BR and the 458 SoCom. With 26 to 28" target barrels the 222, 223 and 6.5 BR will all shoot down to 1/4". So far we have not been able to get a setup that will agg much below the 1/4". I think this may be the lower limit due to the platform design.
The 222 barrel is set up as a bolt rifle, i.e. no gas blow back and it still seems to be limited to about 1/4".
The short barrel M-4 with a quality barrel seems to be almost as good as the longer, heavier target barrels with the free floating forearm. I think this is because the short barrel is stiff and the bullet dwell time is less.
For sure the AR are fun to shoot. But more difficult to shoot bug holes with than the bolt rifles. With the M-4 a coyote in an open field area has a hard time leaving.
Centerfire
Member
Skeet, I had the same inclination as you 6 months ago. I lurked over at ar15.com for about 3 months to learn all i could and then I imposed on my ar-15 military competitor shooting buddy to accompanied me to Shooters. We looked at everything and settled on a RRA EOP 16" SS rifle. The trigger is really nice. I put on the Leupold QRW quick disconnect rings with a 36x Weaver for load development. Have only 24 shots thru it as I have been waiting for the 60, 70, 80gr Bergers, dies, shell holder, etc due this Friday. Oh, I picked up some M855's on sale too. Lots of fun. 
Centerfire
Centerfire
SGJennings
New member
We like to work in a team with a rifle and a shotgun.
Try a turkey shotgun and a 3" 12 ga, #4 buckshot. Note, not #0000 (four-ought) buckshot and not #4 birdshot (like for ducks), #4 buckshot.
Try a turkey shotgun and a 3" 12 ga, #4 buckshot. Note, not #0000 (four-ought) buckshot and not #4 birdshot (like for ducks), #4 buckshot.
M
mike in co
Guest
how accurate do you want and what are you willing to give up to get there ??
my ar10 with a 1/15 twist krieger has shot as small as 0.116 with bib 135's.....aggs under .2...but it is a single shot ar.
my ar15 in 223 with a hart 1/14 twist shooting commrcial 52/53's will agg under .2 and is semi auto.
i had a 6ppc but switched to a 6 beggs ...still in work....
all with 36x luepolds of the bench.
my stock ar10 armalite is a .5 moa rifle with berger 175's.......
ohhh by a good scope...some scopes do not handle the double recoil of an ar.....my redfield 8-32 target ate it...
frank whilte or john hollinger would be my first two picks for outside work.......i do most of my own......
a lite sub moa 16" coypte gun for carry will do for home defense, but not a great dog gun.
buy one lower and two uppers........
some info
most black home defense type ar's are chrome lined and 5.56 chamber low maintenence, fair accuracy.
most varmint/target ar's are ss bbl with a 223 chamber.
get a 9 or 8 twist.....will be good for 52 thru short 75/77's
hand sorted bulk winchester brass works very well...have not tried the lapua since they started making it themselves..it used to be junk.
while a lot is said about free float tubes i dont think the average guy is gonna sling up tight enough to cause poi changes.
for blasting go with cheap 55 fmjBT... the boat tail bullet is a little longer, stabilty is bullet length.
for coyote.....68/69/75......
for dogs.. a 55 hp or tipped bullet...
if you start with used brass spring for a small base die..use it just once....i have been known to NECK size some of my ar 223 ammo.........yes they say it cant be done. an ar will not fire unless the bolt is closed....go look at how the bolt/firing pin / carrier work together.
ask me ...i'll give you fact based answers...not internet hype.
i'm a stag dealer....so stag, armalite and rock river are my factory reccomendations....
mike in co
my ar10 with a 1/15 twist krieger has shot as small as 0.116 with bib 135's.....aggs under .2...but it is a single shot ar.
my ar15 in 223 with a hart 1/14 twist shooting commrcial 52/53's will agg under .2 and is semi auto.
i had a 6ppc but switched to a 6 beggs ...still in work....
all with 36x luepolds of the bench.
my stock ar10 armalite is a .5 moa rifle with berger 175's.......
ohhh by a good scope...some scopes do not handle the double recoil of an ar.....my redfield 8-32 target ate it...
frank whilte or john hollinger would be my first two picks for outside work.......i do most of my own......
a lite sub moa 16" coypte gun for carry will do for home defense, but not a great dog gun.
buy one lower and two uppers........
some info
most black home defense type ar's are chrome lined and 5.56 chamber low maintenence, fair accuracy.
most varmint/target ar's are ss bbl with a 223 chamber.
get a 9 or 8 twist.....will be good for 52 thru short 75/77's
hand sorted bulk winchester brass works very well...have not tried the lapua since they started making it themselves..it used to be junk.
while a lot is said about free float tubes i dont think the average guy is gonna sling up tight enough to cause poi changes.
for blasting go with cheap 55 fmjBT... the boat tail bullet is a little longer, stabilty is bullet length.
for coyote.....68/69/75......
for dogs.. a 55 hp or tipped bullet...
if you start with used brass spring for a small base die..use it just once....i have been known to NECK size some of my ar 223 ammo.........yes they say it cant be done. an ar will not fire unless the bolt is closed....go look at how the bolt/firing pin / carrier work together.
ask me ...i'll give you fact based answers...not internet hype.
i'm a stag dealer....so stag, armalite and rock river are my factory reccomendations....
mike in co
Centerfire
Member
Skeet, I remembered another item about the RRA that Mike reminded me about. The RRA has the Wilde chamber that can be fed 5.56 or the .223 ammo and is is sold as a match chamber. Mike has a great idea about buying two uppers. One twist for light bullets and one twist for the heavy bullets. So many choices/ so little time.
Centerfire
Centerfire
F
flatlander
Guest
lee, +1 dittos to the post that suggested buying a RRA lower with their 2-stage NM trigger, and combining it with a varmint upper from White Oak Armament. John Holliger's uppers are top-drawer in every respect, including accuracy & reliability. The A4 flattop upper makes mounting a scope a cinch, although you should consider a sloped rail from WOA to get the scope up for quick alignment w/o having to use extra-high rings.