Accuracy??

T

Tim Singleton

Member
Ok, guys don't pound me to hard for asking questions.
What do you guys think the ultimate accuracy life of a new barrel is? When you guys shoot a match and have a barrel shooting repeatable tiny groups. How long before that kind of accuracy is lost at the match level ? Talking 6ppc
My new Krieger barrel was shooting pretty small even for me the first 300 rounds
Now its in the high2s to low 3s for 5 shot groups.
When it was new high 1s to low 2s even a couple less than .1
What is real world expectation of a barrel with approaching 500 rounds? Is high 2s it?
 
Last edited:
Tsingleton said:
What do you guys think the ultimate accuracy life of a new barrel is? When you guys shoot a match and have a barrel shooting repeatable tiny groups. How long before that kind of accuracy is lost at the match level ?
Click to expand...
Depends on the match. If you're talking the Super Shoot, or one of the qualifying matches for the World Championships, you've got 25 or so guys who can compete at an international level. Number of rounds before the winning edge is gone is a lot less.

Next would be a regional match, then a club mach. Most don't put their best barrel on for a club match... unless you've only got one, then you shoot what you got.

My new Krieger barrel was shooting pretty small even for me the first 300 rounds
Now its in the high2s to low 3s for 5 shot groups.
When it was new high 1s to low 2s even a couple less than .1
What is real world expectation of a barrel with approaching 500 rounds? Is high 2s it?
Click to expand...
Well, barrels have variability, so it is possible, but odds are against it. I'd figure 1,000 rounds as an average. Could be 500, could be 2,500. Do you have or can you get access to a borescope?
 
A few questions: 1/ Are you advancing your seat depth (chasing the throat erosion)? 2/Are you using the same lot of components and duplicating the velocity you were getting? 3/ Are you shooting at the same range (location) in similar conditions, i.e. temp., RH? 4/ Does your regimen address the carbon ring....such as using Iosso or JB after every match or two? 4/ Are the bullet holes relatively round?.....Depending how aggressive you are with the cleaning rod,it might just need to be re-crowned. ......OR ... it may just be you....you may have picked up a bad habit which many of us acquire after shooting "in the zone".
 
Tsingleton said:
What do you guys think the ultimate accuracy life of a new barrel is? When you guys shoot a match and have a barrel shooting repeatable tiny groups. How long before that kind of accuracy is lost at the match level ? Talking 6ppc
Click to expand...

If your barrel shot well but only for 300 rounds you either are not cleaning it well enough to get the copper out. Or you have damaged it. Tony Boyer may say a barrel only lasts 600 rounds but the average shooter SHOULD get at least twice that before noticing substantial accuracy loss.
 
Tsingleton said:
Ok, guys don't pound me to hard for asking questions. What do you guys think the ultimate accuracy life of a new barrel is? When you guys shoot a match and have a barrel shooting repeatable tiny groups. How long before that kind of accuracy is lost at the match level? Talking 6ppc. My new Krieger barrel was shooting pretty small even for me the first 300 rounds. Now its in the high2s to low 3s for 5 shot groups. When it was new high 1s to low 2s even a couple less than .1. What is real world expectation of a barrel with approaching 500 rounds? Is high 2s it?
Click to expand...

A Krieger barrel approaching 500 rounds could and should be shooting better than whats showing up on paper. Krieger's are excellent barrels.

With only those few rounds through a new Krieger barrel, I think I would start looking at the trigger puller, his or her's bench technique [have someone watch the fundamentals], have a good set of flags out, make sure the equipment being used has no excess movement machined in [undetected play in a front rest, for example] failure to tighten down a knob, and a host of other things first.

Just like some folks are quick to blame a scope for errant shots, barrels themselves are not necessarily the culprit either. Personally, with my wealth or lack there of, 1500 rounds for a 6PPC Kreiger barrel is where I start to think about replacement somewhere in the very near future and start putting aside $450 to $500 for a new barrel, chambering, insurance and shipping costs.

TB talks about replacement at around 700 competitive rounds but I would guess that he receives a much better deal on his barrels than the rest of us do. :)
 
Tsingleton said:
Ok, guys don't pound me to hard for asking questions.
What do you guys think the ultimate accuracy life of a new barrel is? When you guys shoot a match and have a barrel shooting repeatable tiny groups. How long before that kind of accuracy is lost at the match level ? Talking 6ppc
My new Krieger barrel was shooting pretty small even for me the first 300 rounds
Now its in the high2s to low 3s for 5 shot groups.
When it was new high 1s to low 2s even a couple less than .1
What is real world expectation of a barrel with approaching 500 rounds? Is high 2s it?
Click to expand...


There is no way to pull an answer out of the air to difinitively answer this question!
Are the bullets all out of the same lot number that you started with, powder.....same?
Have you tried moving the bullet out a thousandth or two to move with throat wear?
Using same front and rear bag and rest?
Thorough cleaning to make sure that there is no carbon or copper builup?
Using same flag setup under reasonably the same conditions?
Pre loading ammo or attempting to load at the range?
All are questions that can have an effect on group size by .100 or more.
some days you just can't get one to shoot as well today as it did yesterday......thats just part of it.
 
MarkR said:
There is no way to pull an answer out of the air to difinitively answer this question!
Are the bullets all out of the same lot number that you started with, powder.....same?
Have you tried moving the bullet out a thousandth or two to move with throat wear?
Using same front and rear bag and rest?
Thorough cleaning to make sure that there is no carbon or copper builup?
Using same flag setup under reasonably the same conditions?
Pre loading ammo or attempting to load at the range?
All are questions that can have an effect on group size by .100 or more.
some days you just can't get one to shoot as well today as it did yesterday......thats just part of it.
Click to expand...

Yes to all the above.
I am loading at the range. It keeps coming back to 28gr LT32 tho.
I have tried N133. No better results. Those first few weeks with groups really round and tight I'm not able to repeat now. I do a good cleaning
 
The OP
Was really to look for opinions on the when match winning barrel accuracy is lost.
Wasn't really looking for anyone to try to fix anything
 
abintx said:
TB talks about replacement at around 700 competitive rounds but I would guess that he receives a much better deal on his barrels than the rest of us do. :)
Click to expand...

Thats for sure.

Tsingleton said:
The OP
Was really to look for opinions on the when match winning barrel accuracy is lost.
Click to expand...

People have won matches with barrels with thousands of rounds through them. But the General consensus on 6 PPC barrel is probably 1500 to 2000 rounds.
 
Tsingleton said:
The OP
Was really to look for opinions on the when match winning barrel accuracy is lost.
Wasn't really looking for anyone to try to fix anything
Click to expand...

Well, in the same way that different barrels shoot better or worse, diffeent barels can "lose" their accuray at different rates. Dick gave you a pretty good average, but it's just that. If yours isn't capable of wining, you need to change it out.
 
Tsingleton said:
Was really to look for opinions on the when match winning barrel accuracy is lost.
Click to expand...

Here's an opinion you can take to the bank.

"A simple truth: when you fire the first shot thru your barrel, the barrel is on its way downhill. Barrel life cannot readily be predicted, or at least I have never been able to predict it. I have had barrels go from shooting groups in the ones to groups in the threes in as little as 300 rounds! I have also seen barrels shoot competitively with 2000 rounds on them but that, is a rarity. Most barrels loose their competitive edge at less than 700 rounds."

Tony Boyer
Page 182
BARREL LIFE
Chapter 16: Barrels
THE BOOK OF RIFLE ACCURACY
 
Boyd Allen said:
Read post #7 about the .0077 (new record) group shooting .30 PPC.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?87309-0-0077-group!!!!
Click to expand...

Boyd, I think it's been pretty well proven that a 30 caliber barrel has a very distinct advantage over the 6PPC's barrel in terms of barrel life, along with the added advantage of receiving exceptional results on paper with either the 30PPC or the 30BR cartridge. Some 30BR are still winning with over 7000 rounds through them. Personally, that's why I've gone to shooting just my 30BR in score, and also in group competition, when I can.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Boyd Allen said:
No doubt about it, but I thought that for those who were not aware, that it might be interesting information.
Click to expand...

Remember this? Here is a reminder of Jackie Schmidt's 30BR 2010 flirtation with a record [which turned out to be a National Records Committee measurement of .154"], using the same BIB (Robinette) 112gr flat-base bullets that Mike Stinnett just used for his official record setter: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-agg-at-100-yards-with-30-br-best-in-history/

Watch out Randy, if you've caught up with your backorders, it looks like the future still holds promise for many more years worth of future orders.

The 30BR and 30PPC seem to be gaining ground on the 6PPC for many valid reasons, including, above all, accuracy. :)
 
There's simply no answer to the question. Truth is, there's no generalities that you could throw your hat at much less hang it on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top