Abra guns

J

joechacon

Member
Here are a couple of gun I just finished

I built this one for my wife she wants to call it the TEXAS ROSE
Ok it has in it

The new CST PRO-22 Receiver
JWH bolt reworked by Richard Gorham,
Firing Pin Re-Shaped
Feddersen 23" SS Barrel
Grand Master Trigger
The original J N L's PRX Tuner
HD Straight Line Stock, with weight added.
Aluminum Butt Plates
36X Leupold
This gun will with out a doubt give Hammer Time a run for it's money.

Joe







Here is an unlimited that we put together for Les Williams. He was National Agg. line champion last year. He wants to try to do the same in ABRA.

This gun's components:

Kidd Receiver
Kidd Bolt
Kidd 2 Stage Trigger
24" Green Mountain(with Joe's magic done to it)
Tuner J N L's PRX II
HD Straight Line Stock with Aluminum butt plate
Fit and Finish and put together by me.
On top of it sits a T36 Weaver
On preliminaries this gun shows it will defiantly give Hammer Time a run for its money.

You are actually seeing the gun before the owner sees the gun, he will see it tomorrow at the range.

Take a look.

Joe





 
Joe,
A couple great looking guns there! And accurate too!
Couple questions though; About how much would one like those cost,? Ballpark.
Reason I ask is I thought that when you started the ABRA it was going to be designed so it would be an affordable alternative to say ARA or IR50 & the expense of them. For instance it would be more suited for the guys with your off the shelf 10-22s that may have some upgrades. To shoot a lesser quality ammo & to be overall more affordable?
Are there different classes for rifles in the ABRA & these are the Unlimited versions?
How's the ABRA catching on?
Keep up the good work,
Keith
 
linekin said:
Joe,
A couple great looking guns there! And accurate too!
Couple questions though; About how much would one like those cost,? Ballpark.
Reason I ask is I thought that when you started the ABRA it was going to be designed so it would be an affordable alternative to say ARA or IR50 & the expense of them. For instance it would be more suited for the guys with your off the shelf 10-22s that may have some upgrades. To shoot a lesser quality ammo & to be overall more affordable?
Are there different classes for rifles in the ABRA & these are the Unlimited versions?
How's the ABRA catching on?
Keep up the good work,
Keith
Click to expand...

Keith:

That is a very good question, thanks for asking.

These guns go for between $1300 to $1690 that does not include glass of course. Most of us were shooting Kidd guns, accurate to a degree. Price was up there.
We are now for example (Apache) cost me like you see it minus glass, it has a Green Mountain Barrel with our work done to it $1370. A Kidd Classic rifle cost you $1,142.86 plus excise tax that they don't tell you about until you purchase the gun.

Big Tex is on the higher end, and what I mean by that it has a Shilen 4 groove ratchet. It cost $1,690.00 to build and if you look at a Kidd Super Grade it is $1,761.51 +.

Both of these guns can even be had cheaper yet, depending on the wood, and barrel choices.

The guns that Kidd sells can not hold a candle to what we are building for a very respectable price.

What is nice about these guns, is they can be competitive in ARA and IR 50/50, not to mention ABRA. In ARA, and IR 50/50 you might not win National Titles, with these particular guns, but you can win a target or even a match from time to time. This is just like 90% of the bolt guns that are being built.

Ammo, I have limited myself, to no more than the cost of Center X. I also feed my wife's gun and she is very trigger happy. (LOL). You can do better in ABRA with lesser ammo. People have done very good with SK standard plus and even some cheaper Eley from time to time.

The guns we have been showing are Unlimited, but ABRA offers a Factory class as well. We allow you to modify the Factory gun to a degree. These guns are doing very well. The unlimited guns are shooting between 188 and 195 on an average. The Factory guns are shooting between 165 and 185 on an average. My particular factory gun is a 1969 Ruger Finger Groove. This gun is my little jewel, it shoot very well and the work I had done to it only cost me $220.00. You can't beat that. The factory guns that seem to be a big hit right now are the Ruger VLT's. These are pretty accurate right out of the box, and they only cost about $350.00 delivered. You can send it off and the same $220.00 into it, and these suckers will shoot lights out. Probably the most impressive Factory gun out there is the Remington 597. Some of the guys that bring these out will plain just hurt your feelings, and you can pick these guns up for around $200.00.

ABRA is catching on very well, we are on our second year. Nationally we have 100 shooters. We are expected to gain 4 more clubs next year. We are excited about how things are coming together, and enjoy all of the people.

Hope this answers everything, but if not let me know.

Joe
 
WOW Joe! I guessed they cost a fair bit more to put together. It does seem like they are a little more wallet friendly.
I'm quite surprised! I've seen your targets & the 10 ring looked smaller than the IR targets. To get the accuracy you guys have is simply amazing with the semi's. And to be doing it with a "lesser" quality ammo is even more incredible.
Sounds like the ABRA is catching on quite well. Congratulations on all your efforts.
Keith
 
Find it?

I "googled" ABRA and didn't find anything about shooting but I did find one interesting result for ABRA, Association of Belgian Relocation Agents.
 
linekin said:
WOW Joe! I guessed they cost a fair bit more to put together. It does seem like they are a little more wallet friendly.
I'm quite surprised! I've seen your targets & the 10 ring looked smaller than the IR targets. To get the accuracy you guys have is simply amazing with the semi's. And to be doing it with a "lesser" quality ammo is even more incredible.
Sounds like the ABRA is catching on quite well. Congratulations on all your efforts.
Keith
Click to expand...

Thank You Keith
We need more match Directors if any one is interested in ABRA Please give us a call.

Joe
830-796-0815

Lisa
830-688-0147
Thank You
 
I have competed with ABRA in San Angelo, Texas, and I have scored many targets. I am here to tell you that some of these rifles will shoot right in there with the better custom bolt action rifles.

I am no longer sure that the best target bolt gun is any better than the best automatic target rifle.

I know it just doesn't make any sense with all that movement of the action and the number of moving parts in a simi-automatic action but it works.

Could it be that the accuracy of a rifle is simply in the shooter and the barrel?

Concho Bill
 
Bill Wynne said:
I have competed with ABRA in San Angelo, Texas, and I have scored many targets. I am here to tell you that some of these rifles will shoot right in there with the better custom bolt action rifles.

I am no longer sure that the best target bolt gun is any better than the best automatic target rifle.

I know it just doesn't make any sense with all that movement of the action and the number of moving parts in a simi-automatic action but it works.

Could it be that the accuracy of a rifle is simply in the shooter and the barrel?

Concho Bill
Click to expand...

Ahhh, no. The gap is no doubt closing, but no.
 
ABRA guns

Do your unlimited guns have threaded barrels? Ive been hearing that the only way to get a 10-22 to shoot is a threaded barrel. Ive been wanting to build a 10-22 that is accurate but there are so many opinions on how to get there I have been reluctant to try. You however seem to have the answers! Congratulations on your perfect target , and starting a good organization.
 
People don't seem to want to thread receivers anymore. It was pretty much standard procedure 25-30 years ago for 10/22 benchrest. I saw a post by Butch Lambert recently about how many he used to do and that he used a mill for it.

I have done several recently, and chose to use the mill. It's really easy. Bolt a rt angle plate to the mill table and align and clamp the action to the plate vertically. I used a tenon section from a takeoff barrel to make an alignment guide to chuck in the mill. Simply turn a 1/2" shank on the old barrel section. Use this to align the spindle to the action bore, then switch tooling and run a 3/4x16 taper tap through the hole. Nice thing is that the minor diameter is exactly the diameter of the Ruger tenon, so you can still mount slip fit barrels.

it's incredible how solid the barrel/action unit feels when threaded together. It's not necessary for good scores, but if you look at it from a technical standpoint, the only way a slip fit unit could be as stiff and stable is if you went with an interference fit and heated the action to get the barrel in and let it shrink onto the tenon. I've seen a couple of Rugers which tended to put their shots into two tiny groups which were separated slightly. These guns didn't have rear receiver screws. When Dry fired at a target from a good set of bags, the crosshairs would jump slightly and consistently. I suspect that adding a rear mount would help this, but I really think the root cause is slight movement between the barrel and receiver. Threading would eliminate this.

Short answer is that you don't need to do it to build a really good gun. However, it's not hard, and I can't think of any technical argument that could say it isn't the best available system. If you're are after the ultimate rifle, I think it is the way to go.
 
Select fire

I am building on a select fire 80 percent receiver casting and it has no hole for the barrel yet. I had thought I would do a sleeve out of a piece of an old stainless barrel and thread it in to the receiver and mill threads in to it like the steel inserts in a Panda action. But if I do a slip fit and notice the groups as you say, I could always go back and thread or go to a barrel block. I bought some tooling already and an angle plate was one of the pieces I bought. If I remember right the slip hole is 7/16s and I got an end mill in that diameter. I am a very experienced woodworker, but have little time on a mill. I want to have all of this clear in my mind before I mess something up.
 
ebb said:
Do your unlimited guns have threaded barrels? Ive been hearing that the only way to get a 10-22 to shoot is a threaded barrel. Ive been wanting to build a 10-22 that is accurate but there are so many opinions on how to get there I have been reluctant to try. You however seem to have the answers! Congratulations on your perfect target , and starting a good organization.
Click to expand...
No sir I use slip in Have not found it makes a difference and Thank you
 
You know what

Bill Wynne said:
I have competed with ABRA in San Angelo, Texas, and I have scored many targets. I am here to tell you that some of these rifles will shoot right in there with the better custom bolt action rifles.

I am no longer sure that the best target bolt gun is any better than the best automatic target rifle.

I know it just doesn't make any sense with all that movement of the action and the number of moving parts in a simi-automatic action but it works.

Could it be that the accuracy of a rifle is simply in the shooter and the barrel?

Concho Bill
Click to expand...

You know what I don't think you are going to see a semi auto on the bench line winning an IBS or NBRSA shoot any day soon. I'd even be willing to bet money on that and I rarely ever loose a bet.
Andy.
 
Where is the logic?

Andy Cross said:
I don't think you are going to see a semi auto on the bench line winning an IBS or NBRSA shoot any day soon. I'd even be willing to bet money on that and I rarely ever loose a bet.
Andy.
Click to expand...
Andy, I know better than to take you up on a bet like that. I will say that with no time limit set, there is room for you to lose.

What I said was, "I am no longer sure that the best target bolt gun is any better than the best automatic target rifle".

At this time, only a very few tricked out simi-automatic 22 rifles built to unliminited standards have competed in any organized competation other than ARBA. There have been some 250s in 50/50 and some very high scores in ARA at Boerne, Texas, with these rifles. It is just amazing. Where is the logic? It makes one stop and think.

Time will tell.
 
ebb said:
I am building on a select fire 80 percent receiver casting and it has no hole for the barrel yet. I had thought I would do a sleeve out of a piece of an old stainless barrel and thread it in to the receiver and mill threads in to it like the steel inserts in a Panda action. But if I do a slip fit and notice the groups as you say, I could always go back and thread or go to a barrel block. I bought some tooling already and an angle plate was one of the pieces I bought. If I remember right the slip hole is 7/16s and I got an end mill in that diameter. I am a very experienced woodworker, but have little time on a mill. I want to have all of this clear in my mind before I mess something up.
Click to expand...

The sliphole is 9/16" actually. I am modifying an action right now to get steel threads, I happened to have a stainless 40X bushing they make to convert the 40X to 3/4" threads. You can turn the outside down to whatever You want on the outside after threading it onto the barrel.

The outside needs to be larger than the barrel threads obviously, so the tenon hole has to be opened up to do this. Since I wanted to experiment with some really heavy barrels, I flycut the entire front end of a Kidd action back and left the hex wrench flats on the bushing. I opened up the hole as much as possible and bonded/pinned the bushing in place. I can now try barrels up to 1-1/4" in diameter. I think a skinnier barrel with a tuner is better, but I want to try. I am going to use a barrel clamping system with a stabilized floating action.
 
Ya know what

Bill Wynne said:
I have competed with ABRA in San Angelo, Texas, and I have scored many targets. I am here to tell you that some of these rifles will shoot right in there with the better custom bolt action rifles.

I am no longer sure that the best target bolt gun is any better than the best automatic target rifle.

I know it just doesn't make any sense with all that movement of the action and the number of moving parts in a simi-automatic action but it works.

Could it be that the accuracy of a rifle is simply in the shooter and the barrel?

Concho Bill
Click to expand...

Ya know what I don't think you are going to see a semi auto win an IBS or NBRSA bench rest competition any day soon. I am not a gambler but I would be willing to bet a C note on that.
Andy.
 
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