about to buy first rifle; noob questions

C

CoolHandWill

Guest
hi all. i'm finally getting around to purchasing a .308 this week. i've decided i'm going to get a ruger american. my questions pertain to optics and ammunition. this forum seems mostly about reloading, but i hope this question is welcome here!

i guess that just for a starting point, i'd like to set the rifle up to be capable out to about 700 yards. it'll be plenty a while before i can shoot that far but i'd like the rifle to be able to do it! question is, how much do i need to spend on a scope to do that?

next question: i don't want to waste any money on ammo that i could easily find out i shouldn't have bought. obviously i'm going to need to experiment a little to see what works best for me, but if i could narrow it down to begin with that could save some $$$. what factory loads are just junk? what are a few that i should try? i imagine that i'll just buy 3 different boxes when i buy the gun and see what's best, then go from there. how much difference is there between these ammunitions as far as their ability to be reloaded? i'm not setup to reload yet, but i know people that are, so i'll be saving my brass to be ready. are there any that don't reload well? are there some that reload particularly well?

how much should i expect to pay for scope mounting? i don't think i'm going to mess with mounting it myself; i want it right the first time. is it a $20 job or more like $100?

what else do you think one needs to know going into this?

i'm sure no one cares to contribute answers to all of these questions, but i'd appreciate any insight any of you all have.
 
CoolHandWill said:
hi all. i'm finally getting around to purchasing a .308 this week. i've decided i'm going to get a ruger american. my questions pertain to optics and ammunition. this forum seems mostly about reloading, but i hope this question is welcome here!

i guess that just for a starting point, i'd like to set the rifle up to be capable out to about 700 yards. it'll be plenty a while before i can shoot that far but i'd like the rifle to be able to do it! question is, how much do i need to spend on a scope to do that?

next question: i don't want to waste any money on ammo that i could easily find out i shouldn't have bought. obviously i'm going to need to experiment a little to see what works best for me, but if i could narrow it down to begin with that could save some $$$. what factory loads are just junk? what are a few that i should try? i imagine that i'll just buy 3 different boxes when i buy the gun and see what's best, then go from there. how much difference is there between these ammunitions as far as their ability to be reloaded? i'm not setup to reload yet, but i know people that are, so i'll be saving my brass to be ready. are there any that don't reload well? are there some that reload particularly well?

how much should i expect to pay for scope mounting? i don't think i'm going to mess with mounting it myself; i want it right the first time. is it a $20 job or more like $100?

what else do you think one needs to know going into this?

i'm sure no one cares to contribute answers to all of these questions, but i'd appreciate any insight any of you all have.
Click to expand...

OOOOH-rah.... good for you,

and welcome :)

You gotta lotta stuff thar!

hi all. i'm finally getting around to purchasing a .308 this week. i've decided i'm going to get a ruger american. my questions pertain to optics and ammunition. this forum seems mostly about reloading, but i hope this question is welcome here!
Click to expand...
Yup, it's welcome, but it would be more appropriate over on the "factory/hybrid" forum.

i guess that just for a starting point, i'd like to set the rifle up to be capable out to about 700 yards. it'll be plenty a while before i can shoot that far but i'd like the rifle to be able to do it! question is, how much do i need to spend on a scope to do that?
Click to expand...
The rifle will easily reach 700yds and (at a guess) should be capable of hitting a gallon milk jug every time. You could spend as little as $200.00 for a scope capable of this.

next question: i don't want to waste any money on ammo that i could easily find out i shouldn't have bought. obviously i'm going to need to experiment a little to see what works best for me, but if i could narrow it down to begin with that could save some $$$. what factory loads are just junk? what are a few that i should try? i imagine that i'll just buy 3 different boxes when i buy the gun and see what's best, then go from there. how much difference is there between these ammunitions as far as their ability to be reloaded? i'm not setup to reload yet, but i know people that are, so i'll be saving my brass to be ready. are there any that don't reload well? are there some that reload particularly well?
Click to expand...
IMO as long as you buy American or Finnish or German ammunition none of it is "junk." In fact, some of the cheapest (Federal 150gr comes to mind) will often be more accurate than premium ammunition. Generally speaking ammunition designated as 'Match' will be more accurate than than it's counterparts, and not suitable for hunting except pests. Ammunition designated as 'hunting' is often loaded with bullets designed for extreme terminal performance and is often not the most accurate. Generally I avoid silver cases for reloading, otherwise all brands will serve you well. For extreme reloading you will probably gravitate to Win and Lapua over time but don't fixate on it now. By the time you need it your other stuff will be long gone.

how much should i expect to pay for scope mounting? i don't think i'm going to mess with mounting it myself; i want it right the first time. is it a $20 job or more like $100?
Click to expand...
If you're going to pay someone less than $100.00, do it yourself. Seriously. And if it's a "under $500.00" scope, mount it yourself anyway. If it's an expensive piece of glass post specifics here (actually over on factory/hybrid) and get your help with piece in hand. Yes scope mounting is "a big deal." Like tires are "a big deal" to a NASCAR driver......meantime, you can change your own tires on the fam'bly sedan.

what else do you think one needs to know going into this?
Click to expand...
Nothing.



And everything :) Life is a journey, LIVE IT!


i'm sure no one cares to contribute answers to all of these questions, but i'd appreciate any insight any of you all have.
Click to expand...
I begrudge the air being wasted on those who won't contribute.


You've asked great questions


never stop


al
 
The RAR will come with bases. I suggest using Burris Signature Zee Rings. They have an insert inside the rings. It helps preserve your investment in the scope.

There are some YouTube vids on scope mounting out there. Just go through them to separate the wheat from the chaff. There *is* chaff out there.

Get out there and shoot. Have fun. Read and learn. You're on the verge of a great lifetime hobby / time consuming addiction.

Greg J.
 
SGJennings sez truth. It's hard to screw up a scope mounting using Zee rings.

I'll further suggest that when you put everything together use a small 'L' shaped allen wrench or small screwdriver and snug everything up to "about as much as you can get with three fingers on the SHORT SIDE of the allen wrench." Or with your fingertips using the (round handled, NOT T-bar) screwdriver.......I know that's not precise but it's precise enough. Or, "finger tight and then go a quarter turn." Use oil, grease or Loctite on the screws. It ain't about gluing or locking it's about lubricating the screws so they stretch a little instead of galling/binding. I use bolt lug grease.

Get some.

Bolt lug grease comes in a syringe and if you shoot a bolt action rifle YOU NEED IT!!! You heed to get into the habit of greasing your lugs, cocking ramp and primary extraction cam every 25-50rds.

Just do it....

enjoy

al
 
thanks all! i had no idea about lug grease. i'm going out to get some now. the bolt was dry when i got it so i just put some rem oil on it.

i appreciate all the insight!
 
You just want the thinnest film on the back of your lugs, more than that on the cocking cam, every time you clean.
 
consider spending as much on the optics as you spend on the rifle....

308 is a great all round cartridge....shoot from 110 to 200.....

150 thru 175 is a nice place to play

if you only buy ammo you will be at the mercy of someone elses idea of accuracy in your rifle.


so while you are buying ammo..save the brass.


sierra 175 over rl 15 is a great plan....


mike in co
 
sorry for the ignorance, but i have to ask, what exactly constitute the lugs?

and i'm really having a hard time getting my head around optics. so many people have such different opinions on what's good vs. not. keep in mind, i'm new to this, so i'm not just loading up, sighting in, and making a 700 yard shot or anything. i'll work out there slowly over years i hope though. i guess to stay cheap i'm looking at 9 power scopes. the nikon prostaff 3x9x40 seems to be a very good scope, though a 9 mag leaves a lot to be desired.

but there's also the pentax gameseeker. it seems like a little bit cheaper scope, but i can get it in 4x12. the reticle isn't as good as the nikon's, but it's not bad. these are the two scopes that i'm considering right now to get me started. spending much more is unfortunately out of the question, as i just spent about $100 on 3 boxes of ammo....

is the gameseeker too cheap? would it work marginally well for me? understand, i'm just trying to get my feet wet and learn this stuff. i'm not going to competitions or big game hunts. but i do want a scope that will perform consistently. that's my main concern. i expect that the nikon will be much better about that, but i don't know how limiting that magnification is.

thanks again for all the advice so far guys. i'll post a picture of the gun later today. no surprises but i always like when people post pictures on forums!
 
pretty sure the gameseeker is out of the question. that bdc reticle on the nikon is just too much better to save just a few bucks. now, is 9x enough magnification to have fun with... or do i need the 12x?
 
OK, the lugs. Grab the handle and take the bolt out of the gun. On the FRONT of the bolt, furthest away from your fingers, are some hefty abutments. These abutments (the lugs) are the parts that rotate into place and keep the gun from flying apart in your hands....... they take all the pressure.

Grease the backside of them.

My opinion on your scope????? Buy the most expensive Leupold your budget will allow. Don't even try to figger out optics. Don't even try to "shop." Buy reputation, Leupold is used by more professional shooters/hunters than all other brands combined and is unconditionally guaranteed forever.

al
 
ahh thanks i got the lugs taken care of. i'll see what i can find as far as a leupold. i'm pretty sold on nikon's lately though because of the program that helps you use the bdc reticle. it seems to me that this baseline indicator of what to expect out of each reticle circle will save a lot of rounds of practice.
 
CoolHandWill said:
how much should i expect to pay for scope mounting? i don't think i'm going to mess with mounting it myself; i want it right the first time. is it a $20 job or more like $100?

what else do you think one needs to know going into this?
Click to expand...

Seems like a guy with your handle would have steady-enough nerves to take on this task yourself. :D If you happen to be based in the liberal cesspool known as the SF Bay Area, PM me and perhaps we can meet at a local range and I'll show you what to do. You won't learn anything by paying some schmuck to mount your scope, and just because you pay some schmuck doesn't mean it will be installed correctly.

As to what else you need to know, oh, about a thousand things, the first few of which are the rules of gun safety.

And your post belongs in Factory rifles. :cool:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ahhh sorry about that! i'll post in the right forum next time.

i'm sure i'm capable of mounting a scope; i've done it before. i've been instructed though that it is best done with specialized tools that i don't have, nor would i need frequently.

question for you all though: i keep finding good deals on scopes with standard reticles. but i'm completely convinced that if i want to get out past 400 yards or so, i'm going to need a reticle with compensation marks. how hard/possible is it to shoot long range with a standard reticle? is it easy enough to adjust the reticle to compensate on a fairly base line scope? would i have to just judge the compensation and aim over the target?
 
every scope Mfg

CoolHandWill said:
ahhh sorry about that! i'll post in the right forum next time.

i'm sure i'm capable of mounting a scope; i've done it before. i've been instructed though that it is best done with specialized tools that i don't have, nor would i need frequently.

question for you all though: i keep finding good deals on scopes with standard reticles. but i'm completely convinced that if i want to get out past 400 yards or so, i'm going to need a reticle with compensation marks. how hard/possible is it to shoot long range with a standard reticle? is it easy enough to adjust the reticle to compensate on a fairly base line scope? would i have to just judge the compensation and aim over the target?
Click to expand...

is different on their scope "click" values, BUT, a little practice with your scope at a known distance, with a known value ammunition will tell you what those values are. As long as your scope starts from a known zero, be it 100 yards or 1000 yards, you can click to the yardage you want to go to. As an example, my HBR is.....4 clicks up from 100-200, 8 more clicks from 200-300 = 1" from 100-200, 2"more from 200-300

All the above assumes you have a scope that tracks true. Get a quality scope!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David
 
okay. thanks for the explanation. it looks like i'll be expecting a lot more drop than that. the best ammo i have so far (hornady superformance match) says 7.5" of drop from 200 to 300 yards. not so sure that adjusting the reticle will be a good option for me much past 300-400 yards then. i'd probably run out of adjustment well before my goal.
 
you need to spend some time shooting....
making adjustments
and reading charts...

its a curve..and while there maybe a 7.5 inch drop from 2 to 300 yds...the scope is based on 1/4 adjust for 100 yds...which is 3/4 at 300.....which would be about 10 clicks..... your not gonna run out for a while...


mike in co
 
David is speaking in MOA, not inches. 1 MOA from 100 to 200. Another 2 MOA from 200 to 300. So, a total of 3 MOA. That is 9 inches at 300. For the nit pickers, I know that it isn't exact. Lets cut the guy some slack.
 
okay i see what you mean. i guess a standard reticle wouldn't be so terrible. but the bdc is still really tempting!
 
Not one scope or reticle is going to be best for every situation.

I like simple reticles. I don't want anything cluttering up my view nor my mind when under competitive pressure.

One thing to think about: If you are hunting with the rifle, just start by sighting it in dead on at 25 yards. Then make any minor adjustments to make it 3" high at 100 yards. That will put it back dead on at 250 and give you a dead on hold on a deer from zero to about 300.

Here is a trajectory that I ran. I used the 168 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip and the 2,800 fps used by Nosler loaded ammo. Your exact bullet and velocity may, of course, be different.

Trajectory (Simplified)
Input Data
Manufacturer: Nosler Description: Ballistic Tip™ Spitzer
Caliber: 0.308 in Weight: 168.0 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.490 G1 (ASM)

Muzzle Velocity: 2800.0 ft/s

Sight Height: 1.50 in Line Of Sight Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Target Speed: 0.0 mph

Temperature: 55.0 °F Pressure: 30.09 in Hg
Humidity: 82 % Altitude: 647.5 ft

Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Pressure is Corrected: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No Target Relative Drops: Yes
Column 1 Units: 1.00 in Column 2 Units: 1.00 MOA
Round Output to Whole Numbers: No
Output Data
Elevation: 6.540 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA

Atmospheric Density: 0.07536 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1112.2 ft/s

Maximum PBR: 340 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 288 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 159 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1786.2 ft•lbs

Sectional Density: 0.253 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
25 0.1 0.3 0.0 0.2 2752.0 2.474 2824.7 0.027 0.0 0.0
50 1.4 2.6 0.2 0.3 2704.5 2.432 2728.1 0.055 0.0 0.0
75 2.3 3.0 0.4 0.5 2657.5 2.390 2634.1 0.082 0.0 0.0
100 3.0 2.9 0.7 0.6 2611.1 2.348 2542.8 0.111 0.0 0.0
125 3.4 2.6 1.1 0.8 2565.1 2.306 2454.0 0.140 0.0 0.0
150 3.4 2.2 1.5 1.0 2519.5 2.265 2367.7 0.169 0.0 0.0
175 3.1 1.7 2.1 1.2 2474.5 2.225 2283.7 0.199 0.0 0.0
200 2.4 1.2 2.8 1.3 2429.9 2.185 2202.2 0.230 0.0 0.0
225 1.4 0.6 3.5 1.5 2385.8 2.145 2122.9 0.261 0.0 0.0
250 -0.0 -0.0 4.4 1.7 2342.1 2.106 2045.8 0.293 0.0 0.0
275 -1.8 -0.6 5.4 1.9 2298.8 2.067 1971.0 0.325 0.0 0.0
300 -4.0 -1.3 6.5 2.1 2256.0 2.029 1898.3 0.358 0.0 0.0
325 -6.7 -2.0 7.7 2.3 2213.6 1.990 1827.6 0.392 0.0 0.0
350 -9.8 -2.7 9.0 2.4 2171.7 1.953 1759.1 0.426 0.0 0.0
375 -13.3 -3.4 10.4 2.6 2130.2 1.915 1692.5 0.461 0.0 0.0
400 -17.4 -4.1 11.9 2.8 2089.2 1.878 1627.9 0.496 0.0 0.0
425 -21.9 -4.9 13.6 3.1 2048.6 1.842 1565.3 0.533 0.0 0.0
450 -26.9 -5.7 15.4 3.3 2008.5 1.806 1504.6 0.570 0.0 0.0
475 -32.5 -6.5 17.3 3.5 1968.8 1.770 1445.8 0.607 0.0 0.0
500 -38.7 -7.4 19.4 3.7 1929.7 1.735 1388.8 0.646 0.0 0.0
 
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