A list of importance:

Pete Wass

Pete Wass

Well-known member
One of my shooting pals broached the idea of making a list of all the things that are needed to be successful at Benchrest, ranked in the order of importance. Seems like a worthwhile thing to do. We, he and I are going to make lists and compare our results. I wondered if it might be a good winter activity on here if others are willing to participate?

Pete
 
liljoe said:
How successful? As in winning at the national level?

Money!

Joe
Click to expand...

The shooter and barrel and Bullets. There are a lot of people that have the money if they chose to spend it on comps. I could show up with Tony Boyers equipment and still finish in the bottom 20.
I say the shooter is the most important. Everyone else can show up with the same equipment. The top guys are usually in the top 10 because of who they are. I would bet most of them have a different list of importance. You can’t beat good luck and ability with all the money in the world. Mike is correct with the most important. Show up!!
 
I'll submit that Tony Boyer doesn't "have money"....... Tony doesn't buy his way in, Tony has that most important item of all, DRIVE. Tony's dedication is absolutely incredible.

I remember an article in PS where the author had rode with Tony to a big shoot. They'd been at the match and on the road for 4-5 days. They rolled in in the dusk and Tony's words were "Hey! We've still got almost an hour of daylight, let's go shoot some!"

I say this not because I have a valid opinion but because it is my opinion that this thread has gone in such a way that some readers and watchers could get the impression that The World's Greatest BR Shooter bought his way in.

The top shooters are in my opinion DRIVEN to win, DEDICATED to self-improvement and TIRELESSLY FOCUSSED on the hard work required.
 
And, " the correct answer is . . .

alinwa said:
I'll submit that Tony Boyer doesn't "have money"....... Tony doesn't buy his way in, Tony has that most important item of all, DRIVE. Tony's dedication is absolutely incredible.

I remember an article in PS where the author had rode with Tony to a big shoot. They'd been at the match and on the road for 4-5 days. They rolled in in the dusk and Tony's words were "Hey! We've still got almost an hour of daylight, let's go shoot some!"

I say this not because I have a valid opinion but because it is my opinion that this thread has gone in such a way that some readers and watchers could get the impression that The World's Greatest BR Shooter bought his way in.

The top shooters are in my opinion DRIVEN to win, DEDICATED to self-improvement and TIRELESSLY FOCUSSED on the hard work required.
Click to expand...

" . . . and, there you have it. :eek: Thank you, Al. :D RG
 
I don't

Pete Wass said:
One of my shooting pals broached the idea of making a list of all the things that are needed to be successful at Benchrest, ranked in the order of importance. Seems like a worthwhile thing to do. We, he and I are going to make lists and compare our results. I wondered if it might be a good winter activity on here if others are willing to participate?

Pete
Click to expand...

have enough toner in my printer to produce the output! :)
 
If you haven't checked lately this sport is not cheap.
Determination and drive is number 1, but you still gotta be able to afford to go.

Joe
 
So much true!

liljoe said:
If you haven't checked lately this sport is not cheap.
Determination and drive is number 1, but you still gotta be able to afford to go.

Joe
Click to expand...

I think this list idea is great! And could be of tremendous utility to new / aspiring shooters.

Alinwa and liljoe definitely have it right - as in any sport *drive* is *the* deciding factor. If someone had started Tony Boyer out with a J.C. Higgins .30-06, he'd have still arrived where he is today. No doubt about it, the man wins because he gets after it like few are willing to do. That said, there are a lot of logistical errors made on the part of new (and perhaps intermediate) shooters that could be addressed with the proposed list.

Just knowing what the 'state of the art' in the sport, as well as a bit of light shed on what does and doesn't work, could save a new guy thousands of dollars, thousands of hours of frustration (sucks to be doing something everyone else knows is ****************************************************************************************************************************************************************e, only to find out later...), and ultimately their participation (how long is that new person gonna stick around if they're way behind the curve and don't know how to catch up?). A growing sport needs a way to cultivate new shooters. I think a list like that proposed is a good start.

Still waiting to start myself - started getting set up before C19, but that has thrown a huge wrench in the works. I haven't yet shot a benchrest match, but I've shot a lot of other disciplines, at a lot of different clubs, and I know this much is true...

GsT
 
I was thinking more in terms of

1. a reliable scope

2. A good barrel

3. Good bullet - powder combination

4. a good platform for the barrel and scope

and so on. Which items are the most important to be successful in competition.

Pete
 
alinwa said:
I'll submit that Tony Boyer doesn't "have money"....... Tony doesn't buy his way in, Tony has that most important item of all, DRIVE. Tony's dedication is absolutely incredible.

I remember an article in PS where the author had rode with Tony to a big shoot. They'd been at the match and on the road for 4-5 days. They rolled in in the dusk and Tony's words were "Hey! We've still got almost an hour of daylight, let's go shoot some!"

I say this not because I have a valid opinion but because it is my opinion that this thread has gone in such a way that some readers and watchers could get the impression that The World's Greatest BR Shooter bought his way in.

The top shooters are in my opinion DRIVEN to win, DEDICATED to self-improvement and TIRELESSLY FOCUSSED on the hard work required.
Click to expand...

So which is it? Buying your way in....There 2 definitions. Yep 2.
1. Buying the best equipment and components. Or.
2. The above and having the stuff, drive, motivation, experimenting, time(shooting everyday. All conditions.), ER whatever....That costs money also.

Not sure I got my point across. Someone might have the money. But, not the time or motivation to shoot everyday....
Tim B.
 
Pete Wass said:
1. a reliable scope

2. A good barrel

3. Good bullet - powder combination

4. a good platform for the barrel and scope

and so on. Which items are the most important to be successful in competition.

Pete
Click to expand...

OK..... so the post prior to this one states yet again that "this sport isn't cheap"..... BUT, is this true? I have friends who race cars.... and they ask me to race with them.....and my answer has always been "I can't afford that"

I have friends who golf..... "I can't afford that"

I have friends with sleds....."I can't afford that"

I have friends with boats...... "I can't afford that"

I have friends with airplanes...... "I can't afford that"

I have friends who skydive and bungee and ride...."I can't afford that"

I have friends with season passes to several ski resorts...... "I can't afford that"

I have friends who buy season passes and follow a team around....."I can't afford that"

Probably the cheapest sport I've ever engaged in competitively is pool. I can get set up to be competitive on a pool table for a couple thousand bucks worth of equipment but even there if one is to go to competitions the travel is expensive. AND... to get competitive one pretty much must own ones own table......AND one must build a house to accommodate said pool table....

So, I submit that shooting full on Benchrest with a capital 'B' is one of the cheapest sports around.

That said, IMO the single biggest factor is touched on by GeneT. WHAT to buy... I can get a guy set up and fully competitive for around 5-6 Grand. From scratch. I've done it. That's the price of a 20 yr-old Honda

And it's cost me a hundred grand to get there.

I say THANK YOU PETE!!! For starting this thread. People who are interested in this sport NEED THIS INFORMATION!!!

I've basically morphed the focus of my youtube channel for this same reason. I've spent the last two weeks filming equipment and groups just to show newbies

WHAT

IS

COMPETITIVE

and what isn't.

I applaud you for this.

Thank You.

BTW it is my humble opinion that a complete neophyte WITH PROPER GEAR has a better chance of winning than Tony Thee Boyer Hissownself with half the so-called "Accuracy Rigs" out there.

I completely disagree with the sentiment "It's Not The Arrow, It's The Indian"

9 times out of 10 the poor indian is shooting equipment and using techniques that couldn't win if he was the only guy registered.

FIRST thing ya need? A rifle that can win.
 
sooooo
i LIKE to shoot,
i discovered 1000yd br and actually watched for 2 years, then started my first build.
i enjoy the competition, but i am just not "tony boyer" serious about it.
if it becomes work, i miss the fun...i did not shoot in a match this weekend because the first day of practice was not fun.
i started short range br 2 yrs ago, and too many times it is work not fun
i have won..typically a surprise, i know when i shoot well but am still surprised when i actually win

i gotta have fun FIRST
 
rsmithsr said:
sooooo
i LIKE to shoot,
i discovered 1000yd br and actually watched for 2 years, then started my first build.
i enjoy the competition, but i am just not "tony boyer" serious about it.
if it becomes work, i miss the fun...i did not shoot in a match this weekend because the first day of practice was not fun.
i started short range br 2 yrs ago, and too many times it is work not fun
i have won..typically a surprise, i know when i shoot well but am still surprised when i actually win

i gotta have fun FIRST
Click to expand...

No disagreement here, like you, FUN is my first goal too. But it's part of my fun to know that I CAN win :)

"if I do my part"

I have been able to shoot in my yard for most of 50yrs...... I have a nephew-in-law down the road building an underground 100yd range, the latest of 3 in this area..... we tend to TEST that whole "if I do my part" hypothesis and and I've earned the opinion that 90% of the shooters can shoot better than 99.9% of the equipment being used!

Except real Bench Rest rigs.

This actual-factual BR equipment is more inherently accurate than a $20,000.00 laser transit at 100yds.

Provided it's the right stuff.

In the right order and

Properly assembled.

I'm with Pete, "the devil's in the details"
 
The most important part of competition is figuring out what you want from competition

rsmithsr said:
sooooo
i LIKE to shoot,
i discovered 1000yd br and actually watched for 2 years, then started my first build.
i enjoy the competition, but i am just not "tony boyer" serious about it.
if it becomes work, i miss the fun...i did not shoot in a match this weekend because the first day of practice was not fun.
i started short range br 2 yrs ago, and too many times it is work not fun
i have won..typically a surprise, i know when i shoot well but am still surprised when i actually win

i gotta have fun FIRST
Click to expand...

That's a great deal of prescience. Actually, it's easier to recognize than to deal with. But I'm mostly in the same boat. I want to have fun. I *don't* want to sacrifice my happiness to winning. BUT.... I *do* want to win... :)

It's a conundrum that each shooter must face. We all want to win, but how much are we willing to work for the gold? I know where I can reasonably expect to be (contrast with "where I want to be" - which is, of course, best on the planet by a huge margin). I'm just not going to give that much effort to it. I'd rather compare notes with friends, help each other out, and leave every match thinking "not bad - and so-an'-so sure puts in the hours...".

Different strokes. I've been through the cycle of being too competitive, making practice into work, making your hobby miserable.... I'm completely with rsmithsr at this point. There's no large purse, they're not giving away a Ferrari at the end of the match, the racing babes aren't coming out to congratulate you. Shoot against your previous self, enjoy the great guys and gals you shoot with, have some pizza and beer at the end of the day. Or be in it to win it. Neither is right nor wrong. It's only wrong when you've become confused about which camp you're in. And neither camp is easy. It's *hard* to recognize that you aren't there to win, but still want to try hard. It's also hard to be there to win, but to come in mid-page. Results are not necessarily the same between the two groups. And that can be the hardest of all.

I'm certainly not Tony Boyer. I wrapped myself around the axle in a couple of other shooting sports and turned them in to jobs. I'm no longer there. I'm not as good as I once was, but I have a lot of fun at matches. I have tremendous respect for Tony B, but I doubt he thinks much of those like me, if he thinks of us at all. And I don't care. I'm in it to play, to have a good time, and to meet others. I still love competition. I haven't given up. But, I have realized that there's a level I'm not really aspiring to. If you are, I'll compete with you while our skills are commensurate, and help you however I can. And I will applaud and encourage you as you pass me by...

GsT
 
List of importance

Pete Wass said:
1. a reliable scope

2. A good barrel

3. Good bullet - powder combination

4. a good platform for the barrel and scope

and so on. Which items are the most important to be successful in competition.

Pete
Click to expand...




Pete as you know, this is an equipment driven sport. Ive talked to many of the top Benchrest shooters in the region, who have shared their stories about their personal journeys in this fun sport. The general consensus is, as Gary Bristow puts it, “ Buy the best equipment.” I mention fun, because my idea of success in any sport, that i don’t get paid to play, is the fun ,the people, the challenge. Ive posted some of the fun Benchrest experiences I’ve had on this forum.

Through the years, I have browsed through some of the Big matches, equipment lists. Just to get an idea of what some of the top competitors are bringing to the arena. Now,this list of gear has constantly evolved through the years. The quest for extreme accuracy, never ends. The designers and creators of the latest equipment/gear deserves some credit. Some of the gadgets that you convince yourself that you can’t live without, are not cheap. Every sport/hobby that Ive ever tried, turned out to be way more expensive than I anticipated. On the list of importance, Mike Ratigan,writes in his book “Extreme Rifle Accuracy”, that Rifle scopes is the “weakest Link” in the equipment list. Mike refers to a scope that won't hold POI. Ive owned a couple of those.





Glenn
 
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