A Competitive Rifle(Barrel not included)

C

Chism G

Active member
I had a competitive Rifle once. Just about any barrel would work. Bought it used.

My second Rifle,New, built from scratch,by a BR gunsmith. I Never found a barrel that made me fall in love with it. Ended up selling it. I could feel the difference in the handling characteristics of the two rifles. My first rifle just seemed to fit me.

Are competitive Rifles Born(Luck) or are they created by skilled craftsmen from meticulous attention to matching components that goes into a Rifle build. ? A formula

1. A competitive Action
2. A competitive Stock
3. A Competitive trigger

I’ve been shooting BR 16 years,so I know a little about BR Rifles. I.ve sold quite a few since I started back in 1999.:D

What are your opinions,facts,observations about competitive BR Rifles?




Glenn
 
Your right Glenn, I have one of those rifles, it's on barrel number seven now, been three different calibers over the years and was even told the second to last barrel fitted by the smith had faults in his opinion. But it shot very well..Had a few other rifles as well and even with what was felt the best of barrels , these rifles just didn't do what "Ole Red" does.
 
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I think its the action mostly. Then the trigger. Its all about the ignition then the stock has to let it track but thats just for faster shooting. I know i had a good action then put it in a scarbrough stock and it woke it right up now its a hammer. Seen others in 3 stocks that never shot no matter what. Id bet on the action being the key component tho from what ive seen.
 
I am yet to have a action shoot as well as my 1997 vintage Farley. It started as a standard Right Bolt/Left Port. I converted it to a drop port a while back, which I really like.

About 5 years ago I bout a brand new action already glued into one of the finest stocks made, paid a premium for it because I wanted it.

I tried every thing I could trying to make that thing Agg. I copied the tricks several other Gunsmiths were doing to make these particular actions shoot, nothing worked. One day I got so pissed at it I offered it to a friend, scope and all, for $1500. He took it.

Later he told me that was the biggest waste of $1500 he ever spent. He said that Rifle was the biggest teaser he ever owned. A real shot tosser.
 
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We spend all of our time discussing actions, barrels, scopes and bullets. No one talks about bedding jobs, particularly if the work was done by a name smith, or stock builder. I think that the reason is that we feel that producing proper bedding, glued in, is such a basic thing, and that every one who serves the benchrest community probably knows how to do a proper job. It would be interesting to see what that shot tosser would do if re-bedded, or the barreled action put in a different stock, or simply been re-bedded. Yes, testing bedding jobs would be time, labor, and if paid for, expensive, but I believe that there are at least a couple of shooters who could do this sort of thing without any sort of financial regret.

Have any of you run across a situation where a competition benchrest rifle performed differently when the glued in bedding job was redone? If you have, do you think that the reason was a fault in the original bedding? I personally know of one fellow that paid for an installed wood and carbon fiber stock, later to discover that its bedding had only adhered to one side of the action. No, I will not reveal either.
 
I swear that I don't know but fear the worst...it could be anything. For years, I've recommended that folks find a GOOD rifle and just pay what's asked without question. That's the easy way and often the cheaper way. I know for sure it's the quicker way. If that's done, and you don't touch anything but the barrel (many barrels), you'll not only shoot well but you gain insights that others can't see....can't possibly see.
 
You guys are just chasing your tails. Its them wind boogers. I know it is!!

(ever stop to think, you probably just can't shoot that well anymore?)


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Actions

Dusty Stevens said:
I think its the action mostly. Then the trigger. Its all about the ignition then the stock has to let it track but thats just for faster shooting. I know i had a good action then put it in a scarbrough stock and it woke it right up now its a hammer. Seen others in 3 stocks that never shot no matter what. Id bet on the action being the key component tho from what ive seen.
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The Action is the biggest investment and the platform of the Rifle Build. So, Dusty what are some of the things you can do to a BR action to make it more competitive. I don't own a scarborough stock.....yet:D



Glenn
 
You can work on the ignition and trigger timing and different springs. If it dont instantly improve get another one. Life is too short
 
I'll be testing just that scenario,My wife's rifle was a 6.5-284 it won me the World Open in 2006. I am now changing the barrel to a 6mm dasher. Same contour so I shouldn't have to change the bedding. Its a Bat. Right bolt left port, with a Krieger barrel 1-8 twist. Hope it works.

Joe Salt
 
So you won the world open with your wifes rifle, now youre gonna dasherize it- does she not get any say in you doing that or you bought it for her just to justify having it? (Ive done that with boats, fishing poles, etc)
 
Dusty Its better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission! She didn't say a word. Love that in a Woman.

Joe Salt
 
Zdog said:
A BR rifle is a system. If the components of that system are of BR quality and are square, straight, and concentric it will function at a top level. With all else being equal and no hidden Gremlin in the mix - the "nut-behind-the-butt" and conditions have WAY more effect on what a target looks like the rifle.


Chris...Just out of curiosity,what are some of those hidden gremlins? Excluding the Shooter:D

In 16 years I've owned one Rifle with no hidden Gremlins.



Glenn
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One of the symptoms of a action that is demon possessed is it's perpetual nature to throw shots at a random basis. It could be an anomaly in the fire Controle, some unseen stress, who knows.

I do know this. If you ever get a great action, don't sell it, even if the lure of having the latest whiz bang trinket is overwhelming. Somebody will probably come back at beat you with it.

What is the best action out there?
Ask yourself this. Which brand always has to be sent off to a Benchrest Gunsmith to make it shoot at a competitive level? Which action has several major Gunsmiths openningly advertising that they can fix them.?

Which action will shoot right out of the box?
 
Competitive Rifle

I've had rifles that had a tendency to throw shots,but that problem was fixed with a new barrel. The problem I had with several Rifles was that I never could find a barrel that would shoot. When you reach a point of diminishing returns,its time to make a change. Just about any barrel would work on my go to Rifle. Some better than others. There is a reason why this happens.

I believe that a good Rifle starts with a good foundation. A good foundation starts with the Builder. Just my opinion.




Glenn
 
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Jim Pag said:
Zdog said:
Chism G said:
I've had several really really vexing ones. I had a Teddy whose scope rail was a whisker too small and/or a set of rings that were a smidgen too big. Note: whiskers and smidgens are very precision measurements. :) Spent a WHOLE season fighting with thrown shots and a wandering zero. Found out that the rings would "teeter" one way then hold for a while then teeter the other and do the same. Sometimes it would happen in a Match, other times it wouldn't do it for several weeks. 'Bout drove me nuts!

I spent another WHOLE season fighting with a "subtle and intermittent" accuracy problem that drove me even nuttier. This time the barrel was not machined square to the receiver face and only the bottom edge made contact. When the rifle was cold it shot the lights out. When it warmed up it started to "wag" around and shot just miserable. I was ready for the rubber room!

Then came the famous $200 set of custom rings that allowed the scope to turn (in them) while the rifle was in a case being transported to a Match! After the second or third time it happened (sometimes I'm a little slow), I got rid of them. We figured they were probably made by Linda Blair . .

And last but not least - how about the rear scope base that loosened up about a month into the 2014 season? The rifle started well then like the barrel Gremlin shot great for awhile - then not. I fought that particular "Grem" until Sept of that year before I removed the scope and rings and found the loose base. I was so mad I made up some new swear words . . . (sorry - can't print them here).

This past season I fought with a front bag tension screw that wouldn't stay put. Finally added a lock nut to it which solved the problem. Can't really say that was a Gremlin because the problem was evident from the start and easy to fix. Although it irks me to pay a grand for a front rest, and then have to spend another 15 cents on a hex nut to keep it working properly, not to mention a 29 cent NAPA Bargain Bin 7/16" open end wrench to tighten the nut with! :(

Zdog (Chris Mitchell)

I am not a Gremlin magnet. I am not a Gremlin magnet, I am not a Gremlin magnet. I am not . . . . (keep repeating)[/QUOTET
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Ya Chris don't forget that is a $1.69 7/16" Chinese wrench that Mike Farley charged you $25.00 for!! YOU GOTTA LOVE THAT!
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First thing id do on an action that youve ruled out the scope and rings/base 100% is change the trigger. I chased that one for a while and have a picture of a target side by side 4 groups with 2 triggers. It was eye opening and thats when i figured out the firing system is the difference in average and hummer. Ive also fixed a lot of problems by removing a $2800 scope and putting on a $1300 one. Ive done a lot of firing system work and youd be surprised how much difference just messing with springs and cocking pieces does. Dont take for granted your brand new trigger or $2800 scope is good- just trust me. When all is perfect you may shoot a .100 group but coulda shot an .060. Never stop looking and dont settle for an action that doesnt shoot better than you expect cause theyre out there.
 
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