8208xbr...

R

Ron Hoehn

New member
I received some 8208XBR to test, and the weather in St. Louis was going to be in the high 50's last Sunday. I called a few friends, and we went to the range on Sunday morning. The wind was not our friend that day, as it was blowing 10-15 mph from the east AND west all day.
I wanted to see how the new powder would chronograph, as I had heard that it was on the "slow side". I did not find that to be the case at all. We shot over 2 chronographs, and the numbers were almost identical, so we were confident that the FPS numbers were good.
We chronographed V-133, my old lot of 8208, (referred to as "Tucson-T"), and the new 8208XBR. All charges were weighed, and the results are as folows:
V-133:
29.1 = 3409
29.4 = 3439
29.7 = 3464
30.0 = 3504
30.3 = 3542
30.6 = 3575 (full case)

8208XBR:
29.5 = 3212
30.0 = 3291
30.5 = 3335
31.0 = 3406
31.5 = 3457
32.0 = 3517
32.5 = 3573 (full case)

8208 (Tucson-T)
27.5 = 3263
27.8 = 3288
28.1 = 3304
28.4 = 3361
28.7 = 3405
29.0 = 3439
29.3 = 3470 (full case)

The new 8208XBR is much heavier by volume than either 133 or the old 8208, but one can certainly get the velocity that you would want with it.
Time will tell.
Ron
 
Thanks, Ron

Most of us are caught up in the weight of powders when referring to burn rates. If 29 grns of a certain powder yields less velocity than another powder at the same weight, then we tend to think of it as being "slower". The fact that one might be quite a bit denser never really was thought about that much since most of the powders we use are pretty close in density.

The new powder, while being slower by the same weight, certainly does not show to be slower when placing the same volume in the case. Being almost 2.5 grns denser is pretty big.

The real question will be, at what velocity, (ie, pressure curve), will the best agging capability be found. Sure, we can make 133 go 3500+, but in most applications, it doesn't agg worth a darn up there.

If you get a good day, it will be interesting to see how a shooter of your ability can do in the agg capability.............jackie
 
Ron

The velocity report sounds good. What we had chronoed in the Spring showed to be some slower than V133 volume to volume. I had read somewhere that there were 5 lots of this new 8208 being imported. I'm not sure that is correct, I can't see why 5 lots of the first issue?? The lot we had was #4676 (AR2210 V02). This is probably the ADI lot number and may certainly not be the Hodgdon number.
 
Powder lots:

Can someone tell me how many pounds are there to a "LOT" of powder? I suppose it depends on the size of the container the stuff is made in or the amount of the mixture that is made up for each lot or is there a standard size of a LOT?
 
welll, lessee, there is 15 pieces in a bunch, 23 bunches in a poke and 12 pokes in a case. Then there is 10 cases in an order. Then there are several orders in a lot. Hope this helps.
 
Not a whole lot actually

Wildcatter said:
welll, lessee, there is 15 pieces in a bunch, 23 bunches in a poke and 12 pokes in a case. Then there is 10 cases in an order. Then there are several orders in a lot. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...



sort of like "if X = a cook stove and Y = a cord of wood, how long would it take a man to run a mile and a half if he walked?

Now I know all those math oriented folks are gonna jump all over this one :)
 
Pete

Hasmat on a lot of powder to maine will cost you plenty. You can of course
have it shipped to my place at a considerable savings
 
Five Lots!!!, Geeze, I can see it now

lot # *&^!?% is the best lot, and guess what, it's all been scooped up, so the rest of you are just out of luck. Sorry about that.

God, I hope some crap like this doesn't happen. Our best hope is that the lot numbers will just be a formality, and all will shoot exactly the same............jackie
 
No doub't the rumor mill will have 5 lots on the ground before the first
are even shipped.Why would IMR or hodgens do that, your sucess is theres too.
 
Lots and lots of lots

Back when Jef Fowler was alive and I was using his bullets he always told me to treat each packet of bullets as a separate batch. Jef would just put a date on the label with a ball point pin.That was a lot because those bullets were not made on the same day as the next packet.

In Jef Fowlers situation , within his batches was the batch lot of jacket material from the rolling mill, then there was the extrusion lot from j4, then there was the manufacturing lot from the core material maker, etc. Lots within lots.

When you buy barrel blanks, most times they are of a different bar of steel, sometimes drilled and rifled on different machines, and, possibly lapped by a different person with a different lot of lapping grit hence another lot within another lot.

On powders in most instances we are not only dealing with different manufacturing lots we are dealing with different packaging lots. Alliant keeps the original manufacturing lots separate but I don't know about others.

Gotta get used to lots, folks. Part of the skills needed in something like benchrest is learning to merge those variation of lots into the finished product!!
 
On the 1# that I have....

The only thing that I see that could be lot numbers are 1081309 and 4736. I'm with Jackie in hoping that all lots perform similarly. The velocity that I got was lower than Ron's.
21 Inch Bartlein GT 14-13.25 / Bishop 65 gr. / Wolf SR
30.4gr. 3266 fps
30.7gr. 3299 fps
31.0gr. 3315 fps

As far as N133 is concerned I got 3320fps from 29.3 gr. with this barrel on the same day. (Temp. 51 degrees) Good shooting: James
 
Based on velocity, the new powder appears to be a viable alternative to V-133.
The key will be its sensitivity to temp and humidity fluctuations.

Time will tell if it will perform as well as V-133 with regard to tune.

I plan to test it, but right now, I do not plan on buying "pounds" of it (if you know what I mean).

Lee :D
 
Lee Hachigian said:
Based on velocity, the new powder appears to be a viable alternative to V-133.
The key will be its sensitivity to temp and humidity fluctuations.

Time will tell if it will perform as well as V-133 with regard to tune.

I plan to test it, but right now, I do not plan on buying "pounds" of it (if you know what I mean).

Lee :D
Click to expand...
Lee, according to Hodgdons tests of Carmichels loads he used to win the HG Grand at Weikert, there was only about 25 fps in the 0F to the 125F test loads. So the slight velocity variation at extremes seems to be the best I have ever seen.
 
8208xbr

The new powder is one of Hodgdons exstream brands.
That's a good question on how much is in a batch.
I believe Quality control will make the differance and other factors during manufacturing.
I guess it all depends on how accurate the people are mixing the powder.
If you can get a copy of the speer reloading manual NO #9
It has a chapter on how gun powders are made.
Human error would be the decideng factor.
ADI has been using it for a while so more then likely it's an all ready a proven powder.
If betting it's going to be a winner for hodgdon. They certainly did their home work on this one.
If you haave a diffacult question on the powder i would ask
RON REIBER At Hodgdon. He's the producct development manager.
 
JerrySharrett said:
Back when Jef Fowler was alive and I was using his bullets he always told me to treat each packet of bullets as a separate batch. Jef would just put a date on the label with a ball point pin.That was a lot because those bullets were not made on the same day as the next packet.

In Jef Fowlers situation , within his batches was the batch lot of jacket material from the rolling mill, then there was the extrusion lot from j4, then there was the manufacturing lot from the core material maker, etc. Lots within lots.

When you buy barrel blanks, most times they are of a different bar of steel, sometimes drilled and rifled on different machines, and, possibly lapped by a different person with a different lot of lapping grit hence another lot within another lot.

On powders in most instances we are not only dealing with different manufacturing lots we are dealing with different packaging lots. Alliant keeps the original manufacturing lots separate but I don't know about others.

Gotta get used to lots, folks. Part of the skills needed in something like benchrest is learning to merge those variation of lots into the finished product!!
Click to expand...



Jerry;
I'm way too old to acquire the knowledge you have. Too bad...
 
JerrySharrett said:
Lee, according to Hodgdons tests of Carmichels loads he used to win the HG Grand at Weikert, there was only about 25 fps in the 0F to the 125F test loads. So the slight velocity variation at extremes seems to be the best I have ever seen.
Click to expand...

Jerry,
You have a good point... Jim shot Great that week, and espescially during the HV days (I recall he shot a .19xx HV Grand agg).

My records indicate that that we had fairly smooth conditions during the HV 100 and 200 yard days. However, if you look at Jim's 4-Gun he struggled (in relative terms considering he finished 49th) with the Sporter class. My notes show that during the Sporter 100 the conditions during the first match had temps at 82 degrees with the humidity at 60%, and it moved to 74 degrees with "rain" on the last match. I'm not sure if Jim used the new powder that day, or just missed a few conditions. I guess what I'm saying is, only with time and a lot more shooters using the new 8208 will we see if it better, worst or the same as V-133.

I can't wait to try it!

Have a Great Turkey Day
Lee:D
 
Looking at the velocities that Ron got it looks like it shoots a lot like Benchmark. Very close to what I have been getting with BM.

Donald
 
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