N
Newcomer
Guest
I have an oppurtunity to buy very cheap 55 gr 6mm softnose bullets which I would like to use for 6ppc fireforming. Are there any safety concerns or other problems I should be aware of?
M
mike in co
Guest
yes....as with any typical reloading....
are you doing something different than that ? then safety for what you are doing....
there are lots of ways to fire form you did not say how you were going to do this...
mike in co
are you doing something different than that ? then safety for what you are doing....
there are lots of ways to fire form you did not say how you were going to do this...
mike in co
I too am relatively new to this game. I have tried several Fire Forming methods to this date and have found the one I perfer best as follows:
Prime and charge the virgin brass with 296 pistol powder to the neck shoulder junction then plug with plumbers puddy.
I would sugest using a Fire forming barrel and lube the cases with die wax or similar lube and fire.
The brass comes out more uniform than when firing bullets.
Also, you save the cost of the bullets and the wear & tear on your good barrels.
Before Neck turning expand the necks with a expanding mandrel and you're ready to go.
Hope this helps
M
mike in co
Guest
i certainly hope someone besides me notice the use of a "weighed slug" on top of a case full of fast pistol powder....this is NOT SAFE...
A 20G SLUG OF PUDDY PUTS PRESSURE AT APROX 59KPSI AND A 40 G SLUG IS APROX 87KPSI.......both are above design.
PISTOL POWDERS USED FOR FIRE FORMING CASE MUST HAVE LITTLE TO NO WEIGHT ON TOP OF THE POWDER.....
mike in co
Butch Lambert
Active member
The plumbers putty that I have used for plumbing sure wouldn't raise much pressuire. I use Bullseye to the neck and a wax plug in a fireforming barrel.
Butch
Butch
Mike,
I was given this method by a very well known gun smith and he has used it numerous times. I have used it several times myself and do not notice any problems. Furthermore, seems to me that a bullet would cause much more pressure. Am I missing somethng?
Thanx
N
Newcomer
Guest
It was'nt my intent to start a discussion on fireforming methods. I have fireformed several hundred cases using quality (and expensive) 68 and 70 grain 6mm bullets. I simply wanted to know if using a significantly lighter 6mm bullet with a soft nose could cause any problems or concerns. I think Mr Mock answered my question.
N
Newcomer
Guest
In my previous post I gave credit to Mr Mock but it should have been Mr Hovis.
M
mike in co
Guest
pistol powder and rifle powder filled case for fire forming are significantly different.
there is no relationship to the two.
i simply ran the numbers in quickload using the weights listed with less start pressure...and posted the results.
i do not know if wax vaporizes when used this way, but doubt that the puddy does.
pistol powder is typically done with a smal tuff of tissue...no real weight......
that is the big clue.......any significant weight infront of the powder raises the pressure sharply......
i believe we had a case here where someone not knowing the subject used a bullet in front of the powder....instant disaster.
what i am saying, is that if you use pistol powder to ff with...doo not put weight in front of the powder.....
to the original poster.....your statement is very vague....if you had said
"if i substitute 55 for 68's ..."it would have been very clear...you did not..and thus we have this discussion
mike in co
there is no relationship to the two.
i simply ran the numbers in quickload using the weights listed with less start pressure...and posted the results.
i do not know if wax vaporizes when used this way, but doubt that the puddy does.
pistol powder is typically done with a smal tuff of tissue...no real weight......
that is the big clue.......any significant weight infront of the powder raises the pressure sharply......
i believe we had a case here where someone not knowing the subject used a bullet in front of the powder....instant disaster.
what i am saying, is that if you use pistol powder to ff with...doo not put weight in front of the powder.....
to the original poster.....your statement is very vague....if you had said
"if i substitute 55 for 68's ..."it would have been very clear...you did not..and thus we have this discussion
mike in co
N
Newcomer
Guest
Mike in CO,
My bad!
My bad!
T
tgvet
Guest
Not new to to shooting and reloading but still working on perfecting the art of precision shooting. I've read so much from the competitors and developers on various facets of the subject of BR, HP and so on and again most recently on FF using wax. However, I still haven't gotten an answer on just exactly how to apply the wax. I just bought a # of beeswax for the purpose of FF my 6PPC but want to know EXACTLY the method to get it topped off.
My other trials (always with Bullseye) 1- top off and merely point skyward. = Uneven not 100%. 2- hot glue gun (using small gun low heat) almost perfect but don't like the idea of that residue. 3- obviously using a bullet with rifle powder but don't want to wear the tube out.
Also, in the process of FF I try to do this in cooler weather as it doesn't take too many rounds for that powder to heat up tube rather quickly, so any thoughts or concerns about heating will be appreciated. So too anyone with the answer on how they applied wax much appreciated.
I'm using a Sako 75, SS HV, laminate, I bedded, not a match chamber and no neck turning but damn accurate for a factory rifle that I've gotten consistent one hole groups with using 70g.Sierras over N133.
My other trials (always with Bullseye) 1- top off and merely point skyward. = Uneven not 100%. 2- hot glue gun (using small gun low heat) almost perfect but don't like the idea of that residue. 3- obviously using a bullet with rifle powder but don't want to wear the tube out.
Also, in the process of FF I try to do this in cooler weather as it doesn't take too many rounds for that powder to heat up tube rather quickly, so any thoughts or concerns about heating will be appreciated. So too anyone with the answer on how they applied wax much appreciated.
I'm using a Sako 75, SS HV, laminate, I bedded, not a match chamber and no neck turning but damn accurate for a factory rifle that I've gotten consistent one hole groups with using 70g.Sierras over N133.
Butch Lambert
Active member
I use paraffin that is used for making candles. The stuff that I get at what I call the women's hobby shop is about 3/8" thick. I just push the case into the wax to seal the neck. I use bullseye to the bottom of the neck in PPC and BR cases. It sure as hell ain't high pressure.
Butch
Butch
C.L. Peterson
Active member
Heep it simple-Fireform and foul barrel
Using fully prepped 6 PPC cases (includes neck turned) load with left over lots/canisters of VV133-8208 loaded to neck--then use odd lots of bullets (6mm) seated long so they will jam in chamber pushing the case against the bolt.
I load about 30-50 at a time and shoot these as barrel foulers.
Do this 2X for each case and their match ready--May need to trim OAL again
This gets rid of all your small lots of powder and bullets and fouls your barrel.
This method will not work if you need 20 cases for a match the next day.
This method has been presented by others on this discussion/forum and works well for some of us.
If your bullets in question (6 mm)will jam into barrel and push the case against the bolt this should work for you.
CLP
Using fully prepped 6 PPC cases (includes neck turned) load with left over lots/canisters of VV133-8208 loaded to neck--then use odd lots of bullets (6mm) seated long so they will jam in chamber pushing the case against the bolt.
I load about 30-50 at a time and shoot these as barrel foulers.
Do this 2X for each case and their match ready--May need to trim OAL again
This gets rid of all your small lots of powder and bullets and fouls your barrel.
This method will not work if you need 20 cases for a match the next day.
This method has been presented by others on this discussion/forum and works well for some of us.
If your bullets in question (6 mm)will jam into barrel and push the case against the bolt this should work for you.
CLP
T
tgvet
Guest
Thanks Butch. I thought about warming the beeswax to a pliable state, but the method and material you mentioned sounds much better and less cost than beeswax.
I have a few other questions for you if you have a minute or two.
1-Do you get 100% uniformity with or without lubing your brass first ?
2-Are you getting 100% chamber FF with only one firing ?
3-Do you use a dedicated or otherwise non-match/competing barrel ?
4-Is there any build up of residue to contend with or does the wax all blast out ?
5-How many cases do you FF in one session ? Heat related question to 4 above.
6-After FF, what kind of die do you use ? BB, neck only, FL ?
7- Custom made die to match chamber/reamer ? Neck turn or no-turn chamber ? e.g .263
I've read many BR and HP shooters FL size every firing, I assume they are using a custom die to match the chamber though. My experience thus far is using a bushing/bump die as my chambers are SAAMI and not a tight neck or otherwise no-turn and I try to keep my brass uniform to the chamber with as little work to the brass as possible. I check my brass each firing for signs of pressure,expansion and primer signs, I never load hot and chronograph all my work ups.
Thanks again for the guidance.
Rob
I have a few other questions for you if you have a minute or two.
1-Do you get 100% uniformity with or without lubing your brass first ?
2-Are you getting 100% chamber FF with only one firing ?
3-Do you use a dedicated or otherwise non-match/competing barrel ?
4-Is there any build up of residue to contend with or does the wax all blast out ?
5-How many cases do you FF in one session ? Heat related question to 4 above.
6-After FF, what kind of die do you use ? BB, neck only, FL ?
7- Custom made die to match chamber/reamer ? Neck turn or no-turn chamber ? e.g .263
I've read many BR and HP shooters FL size every firing, I assume they are using a custom die to match the chamber though. My experience thus far is using a bushing/bump die as my chambers are SAAMI and not a tight neck or otherwise no-turn and I try to keep my brass uniform to the chamber with as little work to the brass as possible. I check my brass each firing for signs of pressure,expansion and primer signs, I never load hot and chronograph all my work ups.
Thanks again for the guidance.
Rob
T
tgvet
Guest
I learned the hard way a long time ago not to turn prior to FF. The only good thing from that bad thing, my SAKO brass was far less $$ than it currently is and turning new cases did nothing for accuracy. In fact, it hurt it.
Load bullets long. Apply a thin layer of Imperial on body of case. Clean chamber out after.
Works great. 95/100 cases had a sharp shoulder. Perfect fit.
Send 4 cases to Lynwood Harrell for a custom die.
Make sure your gunsmith, uses the same reamer, on the next barrel. Barrels are like tires.
Buy a new set every year. Keeps YA out of the ditches.
Works great. 95/100 cases had a sharp shoulder. Perfect fit.
Send 4 cases to Lynwood Harrell for a custom die.
Make sure your gunsmith, uses the same reamer, on the next barrel. Barrels are like tires.
Buy a new set every year. Keeps YA out of the ditches.