6PPC/6mmBR

J

jwv2001

Member
First of all, I am not a Benchrest shooter but I have a question that perplexes me. There is no question that the 6PPC dominates Benchrest competition. My question is WHY? I shoot a 6mmBR that is very accurate but it is basically a hunting rifle. In comparing both cases(Lapua), there is very little difference in dimension with the BR case slightly larger.
I know that Jackie Schmidt did a comparison between the PPC and the BR a few years ago but I don’t think he ever explained what he thought was the difference in the way they shoot.
In like equipped rifles, common sense would seem to make you believe that both should shoot the same. It’s hard for me to see that what’s between the datum line and the bolt face could make such a difference.
So my question is, what do you think is the reason that the PPC outshoots the BR?

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jwv2001 said:
So my question is, what do you think is the reason that the PPC outshoots the BR?
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Its magic, gotta be magic, because for several years some BR shooters made a cartridge called a 6 Taldog. It was a BR case reduced to have exactly the same case capacity as the PPC. It won some, mainly to the extra efforts of shooters like Fred Hasecuster. But it still never took off. Magic?? Must be!! I have almost new Hart in 6 Taldog and chambered by Kelblys. I've never been able to get it to shoot like a PPC.

EDIT- and this barrel was tested with carefully prepared Lapua brass. Look, if the 6BR were superior in the 100/200 group game, most competitors would be using it would they not??

The 6BR is superior to the 6PPC in the 600 yard game though. When using the 105/108 VLD bullets common in 600 yard competition, There is just not enough case capacity left in the 6PPC to get the needed velocity.
 
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Most of the Talldogs, and other short BR cases, were made from Rem BR brass which could account for the difference. Maybe a Talldog using Lapua brass would shoot as good as a PPC??? But, why bother? If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

ray
 
To the OP, jwv2001.....

I have an opinion, one that I spent ten years and thousands of dollar acquiring. In that time I tested the two cartridges head-to-head quite a bit. I've gone so far as to have barrels chambered in 6PPC then RE-chambered in 6BR by the same gunsmith. I ordered two barrels from Krieger specifying they be "consecutive" mfgr from the same lot of steel etc and had them chambered both ways....and I've taken two barrels and switched chambers. Anything I could think of, I've tried. I can make a 6BR shoot. Well.



BUT....IMO the PPC is the better choice for two huge reasons; #1 there's an entire cottage industry of support behind the PPC, an industry built on years of empirical evidence, a compilation or distillation of "things that work." And #2, perhaps most important, this industry has evolved to provide a SYSTEM which produces good straight cases and the tools with which to maintain them. The BR simply does not have these advantages although some of the people building shortened variants have tagged into the 6PPC procedure and can make the 6BR-bases rounds shoot. Also, some people will "short-chamber" for you so that you can enjoy the fireforming benefits offered by the PPC but by and large the entire industry will just tell you "the 6PPC aggs better" and there's no compelling reason to prove it wrong. :)

Which just bugs the bejeebers out of a certain feller name of Stekl, he's not a huge supporter of the communist case.......... he even had Calvin stickers made up.....

If you have reason to build a 6BR and want it to shoot "like a PPC" PM me and I'll try to help. Any discussion here will be polluted by uninformed rhetoric from people who've "built a 6BR and it din't shoot as good as my PPC's!!!"

Which is undisputably true :)

opinionsby





al
 
Both aare great cases. But If remington gave had given Stekl the funds for developing the case you might be shooting a BR today. The 30 Br can shoot winning groups and the 6 Br with a quick twist has shot records at long range.
 
I agree with GerryM. Remington made a big blunder (one of many) when they assumed that shooters would want to make their own BR cases from the basic brass that they introduced. Not only did shooters balk at the idea, the quality of the Remington brass left a lot to be desired. By the time they realized their mistake it was too late.

The new Lapua brass in Norma BR and Rem BR gave the cartridge a new start and helped it to find it's niche. It's still one of the favorites for the mid ranges and for cartridges such as the 30 BR, but it's not likely to replace the 6 PPC for point-blank Benchrest.

JMHO

Ray
 
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In the 1975-1990 time period we did use quite a bit of RemBR basic brass to shoot IMSHA and NRA Metallic Silhouette shooting mainly the 7 BR cartridge.
 
Jerry - While Remington did make 7 BR REM brass, it was not as common as the 7 BR cases made from the BR Basic. I never could understand why Rem made 7 BR REM brass but it took them so long to make 6 BR REM. I think even Lapua made 6 BR REM brass before Remington did.

Ray
 
one of remington's bigest blunders was letting the model 32 shotgun go..just look what kriegoff did with it..still the top target shotgun around..all from that basic 32 design.
 
mark-x said:
one of remington's bigest blunders was letting the model 32 shotgun go..just look what kriegoff did with it..still the top target shotgun around..all from that basic 32 design.
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LOL


I shoot an old 32, you know why?

"Because it feels like an 870!!!!"

ha

al
 
alinwa, i have had a few of them over the years, 32 and a few 3200's.
im looking for a clean and in good shape 32 to restore right now..at a fair price...i think i may have found one..but all my money tied in a 6ppc build that i still owe a bunch of money on..lol
 
Cheechako said:
Jerry - While Remington did make 7 BR REM brass, it was not as common as the 7 BR cases made from the BR Basic. I never could understand why Rem made 7 BR REM brass but it took them so long to make 6 BR REM. I think even Lapua made 6 BR REM brass before Remington did.

Ray
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Ray, over that period I shot IHMSA we used all three, 308, BasicBR and 7BR. We started with the308, cutting it off and using Skippy Otto's dies. Now that was really fun!!
 
Thanks all for your replies. It seems that the concensus is, what is between the datum line and the bolt face does make all the difference. What Jerry Sharrett said about it being "magic" kind of rings true.
I am inclined to agree with alinwa's take on the subject regarding the cottage industry community around the 6PPC. If 100% of the shooters shoot 6PPC, it's easy to understand why it is so successful.
 
IMO 99% of the population is happy believing in magic. I've learned to accept that that's OK,




for them.




But for ME, I'll never be in "the 99%"




I'm too occupied by experimentation




al
 
Recoil,
A 6br beats on you more than a 6ppc in a LV rifle. Shoot all day,day after day, the ppc preference becomes obvious.
 
mark-x said:
one of remington's bigest blunders was letting the model 32 shotgun go..just look what kriegoff did with it..still the top target shotgun around..all from that basic 32 design.
Click to expand...
Saw one of those 32's down to Novi gunshow last week. $3200.00 Nice wood, engraved just had the 12ga barrels. I've shot a couple of them( last one had Kolar .410 barrel inserts). No doubt one of their biggest blunders.
Mark
 
another Q that points up the need to rename this section "short range centerfire"

The 6ppc rules the roost short range no doubt about it--whether by hook or by crook-- it's a fact. Ask about this same Q in the long range area of this site and you will get an entirely different consensus.
 
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