6.5x54 MS in a Modern Rifle?????

vtmarmot

vtmarmot

P Magoon, Livin' Free NH
Just trying to inject something new in this category........

Anyone shoot a 6.5x54 MS in a modern rifle? Just wondering what your experiences are. I have a Steyr Ferdinand Von Mannlicher commemorative. It's a gorgeous rifle (other than the stupid medallion) but the chamber is ridiculously large. I have a bunch of Norma brass that I may start playing with. I think I'll have to WD-40 the cases for fire-forming, it's so roomy. The throat is so long I think you could seat a number 2 pencil to the bottom of the neck and not touch the lands with it.

Maybe I should see if it will chamber a 6.5x55 Swede or a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Just what the H*LL were they thinking, anyhow?
 
Check it first

You might want to do a chamber cast first to see what it realy is. It might also have bad headspace. Could the bolt have been swapped?
 
You're right about the cast.

I do have materials to do a chamber cast, however I am moving to a new house and state and everything is packed up (including the gun). I just felt like writing about something as I am taking a year off from shooting for the move. I will make the cast before doing much more with this gun.

The rifle is very high quality. I bought it new and have only shot it less than 20 times. I have done careful measurements before and after firing on brass and feel that the head space is fine. The body expansion does concern me, however. I guess they were trying to mimic the original MS chambering, but I would be surprised if even that is that sloppy. The lead is extra long. I got a Lock and Load threaded case made by Hornady from some empties and no bullet made would approach the lands and have anything left in the neck except maybe a Barnes.

I did make up some loads with older Nosler 120 grain ballistic tips and got good accuracy and about 2450 fps. I forget the powder and charge (records are packed up too). Buffalo arms factory 160 round noses only got about 1900 fps and had an arc like a banana.

If I can fire-form some new brass without threat of separation (via use of a wet chamber and light load) I should be able to load this a bit hotter than normal factory fodder. 140 Barnes Triple Shock bullets should be able to approach the lands and still have one caliber left in the neck. That's my current thinking anyhow.

The other peculiarity of this rifle is that it has a long length of pull, but that seems to be a European thing. It is really more of a stand gun than a stalking gun. I fitted it with a 4-10 Pecar scope that has a long mounting surface and I was able to get it where I could mount the rifle comfortably and get correct eye relief.

These rifles originally sold for around $3500. I got mine for half that and I think there are still some available at that price. It is a pretty gun. I wish I could get an extra magazine for it, but none are available since they are very caliber-specific. Otherwise one for a regular Steyr SBS would fit.
 
vtmarmot said:
Just trying to inject something new in this category........

Anyone shoot a 6.5x54 MS in a modern rifle? Just wondering what your experiences are. I have a Steyr Ferdinand Von Mannlicher commemorative. It's a gorgeous rifle (other than the stupid medallion) but the chamber is ridiculously large. I have a bunch of Norma brass that I may start playing with. I think I'll have to WD-40 the cases for fire-forming, it's so roomy. The throat is so long I think you could seat a number 2 pencil to the bottom of the neck and not touch the lands with it.

Maybe I should see if it will chamber a 6.5x55 Swede or a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Just what the H*LL were they thinking, anyhow?
Click to expand...

Note sure if this is of any interest but

That said, there is one specific alternative weapon and cartridge that clearly bears consideration here -- the 6.5X54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer. Interestingly enough, the WCC 6.5 Carcano cartridges in evidence in connection with this assassination were part of a US government contract to supply ammunition to the Greek government during the 1945-8 Greek Civil War. And these WCC "Carcano" cartridges were assembled primarily for use in the standard Greek service rifle -- a version of the 6.5X54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer. The Greeks had fought with the Italians a bit and had captured thousands of 6.5 Carcano rifles from them -- rifles they then put to service in their civil war. It was an advantage to load the supplied 6.5mm cartridges so that they would function reasonably well in both weapons. The result was a bunch of cartridges that had some performance issues in the average Carcano, and perhaps in the MS as well, though the MS's .264 inch bore diameter is a match for the WCC bullets and unlikely to suffer the degraded accuracy commonly reported by Carcano shooters who experiment with .264 diameter bullets (Carcano bores are generally reported to run in the .268-.269 inch range, so smaller-diameter bullets made for the M-S come out a bit wobbly from them).

(Taken from Keg Island website)
 
Not sure where you're going with this.

My point was to criticize Steyr for creating an expensive modern rifle and then cutting the chamber so loose that it might render case life very short for the handloader. That's a strange move considering that factory ammo for the 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenaur is not widely available.

I was joking about chambering another cartridge in it. However, looking at the dimensions for the 6.5 Carcano, it would be loose in the Mannlicher chamber except for the bullet diameter, which is just a tad larger. The headspace would be dangerously large. To chamber the Mannlicher in the Carcano chamber would not be possible unless the Carcano chamber was cut hugely loose.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a shorter but much fatter cartridge than either of those while the 6.5x55 Swede is both fatter and longer.

My hope here was to find someone who had done extensive load development in one of these Steyr commemorative rifles. I guess those that bought them made them safe queens. Too bad as they are nice rifles.
 
Curious chamber design needs to be oversome

I have done some shooting with a model 1903 MS rifle built in 1908. I have talked to other MS shooters and it appears that the rifle/ammunition combination was developed without hand loading in mind, but ease of operation was a consideration. Headspace was generous by modern standards. What I have done is to set the die to account for this. Norma cases seem to survive the initial firing in the long chamber OK, and if one bumps the shoulder back only a few thousandths, they survive multiple reloadings. I fired some Midway brand cartridges, which failed frequently and I gave the remainder to a cartridge collector who knows the problem and will not fire them. Stick with Norma cases, adjust the sizing, and all should be well.

Harold
 
Found this...

vtmarmot said:
Just trying to inject something new in this category........

Anyone shoot a 6.5x54 MS in a modern rifle? Just wondering what your experiences are. I have a Steyr Ferdinand Von Mannlicher commemorative. It's a gorgeous rifle (other than the stupid medallion) but the chamber is ridiculously large. I have a bunch of Norma brass that I may start playing with. I think I'll have to WD-40 the cases for fire-forming, it's so roomy. The throat is so long I think you could seat a number 2 pencil to the bottom of the neck and not touch the lands with it.

Maybe I should see if it will chamber a 6.5x55 Swede or a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Just what the H*LL were they thinking, anyhow?
Click to expand...

Found this for you: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/15/handloading-the-65x54-mm-mannlicher-schoenauer/
 
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