338cal from 408 Cheytac or 416 Barrett

C

citabria

Guest
I was wanting to know if anyone has had any experience with a 338cal necked down from a 408 Cheytac or 416 Barrett and the reason for this is availability of bullets that a person can use the gun for long long range hunting from a shooting bench, as well as benchrest shooting. I would like to push the 338 bullet from approx 24" barrel to 3500fps. also any info on 338 edge or norma would be greatly appriciated. Thanks
 
You will find lots of information over on Long Range Hunting .com

Search Kirby Allen and Shawn Carlock to get started.

Now...... these guys aren't shooting to the accuracy standard expected here! (You mentioned benchrest above... "benchrest" means something on this board.) 1moa is a LOOONG way from 1/4moa...

That said, you will have to be MUCH more specific in your needs..... Do you want to shoot HEAVY 338 bullets? Do you want a repeater? Do you have deep pockets? Do you want accuracy or just speed???

I expect a repeating hunting rifle to be capable of 1/4moa aggregate groups if it's to be used for long range hunting. Using hunting bullets. I personally don't think I can achieve this within the above mentioned parameters. IMO accuracy trumps speed always. It don't MATTER how fast ya' miss! And it's unethical to shoot "at" stuff beyond the capabilities of your system.

opinionsby

al
 
I completely understand the desire to get as much velocity as you can get but Al is exactly right. It is my experiance and a commonly known fact that in an apples to apples comparision the faster gun is typically less accurate than the slower gun. A big statement but if this was not true everyone shooting short range benchrest would be shooting larger capacity cases like the long range guys so that they could cheat the wind more with higher BC bullets and velocity. However that is not the case they use slightly slower velocities from small unimpressive size cases and count on their flags to shoot tiny groups. Everything is a trade off and to get the increased velocity you will need to trade some accuracy. Bring a 338 Edge or ultra mag to a range and shoot against a ppc or 30BR at 100 yards the ppc and BR will almost always win. not to say you can not have a super accurate gun built on the chamberings you mention above but if you build 10 PPC and 10 large caliber speedsters the PPCs will win everytime. I hope that does not upset you but here is the upside. The PPC and BR sucks as a hunting cartridge past 200 yards. I hope that does not make anyone mad on here but it is an oppinion and if you use one at that range with success I commend you I just feel they do not have the energy required to kill effectively and reliably at ranges excedding 200 yards. So your choice is much better for Longrange hunting. You want a longrange gun for hunting sub MOA is a must just as AL said. I feel .5 moa is acceptable out to 1000 yards as that gives you a 5 inch group on a perfect day (how often do we see a perfect day) and that would kill a coyote at that distance! 1/4 as Al says is better and that coyote is in more trouble for sure! I hope I did not make anyone mad here but some tradeoffs are neccisary in this world so deciding what accuracy speed balance you can live with is very important. Check your PM's Citabria I will write you more info.
 
Bruce Baer builds the 338/408 chey-tac so a call to him will probaly get you the velocity part of your question answered but limiting the barrel to 24 inches is not going to help.

A google search for the 338 Talbot or 338/50 should get you more velocity as one is based on the M48 spotter-tracer round and the other is based on the full length 50 bmg case.They make two versions of the 50 spotter-tracer case one with flash tubes for frontal ignition and one without.For a longrange hunting rifle you want the cases without the flash tubes.

Another option if you have an action that size is the Mach V which is a 50 bmg necked down to 375 and no other changes.In a 36 inch barrel my fireform loads hit 4000 fps with relative ease as they don't even fully form the brass.The problem here is your back to the same old bullet problem.At 4300 fps 2 out of 3 jacketed bullets will fail to reach the target and when a barrel costing you $550 for a blank only lasts 700 rounds your forced back into the lathe turned monolithic solids.For good bullets try Paul Harlow at AAA-Ammo.com or get in touch with Lynn McMurdo out of Afton,Wyoming as he makes some very high quality solids.
The 338 Lapua shooting the 300 grain sierras only goes 2850 fps at best accuracy and with a long tube 3000 fps is possible but the accuracy isn't there.
As to the velocity doubts posted earlier the ppc guys are running 3250-3450 out of a 30 grain case so they are pushing the limits already.
If you went with a 6mm-06 or 6-284 at 3425 fps using 107 Sierras and limited yourself to 1000 yards either will shoot flatter than the 338 Lapua and still have 1000 pounds of knockdown energy.

I think Lester Bruno is shooting a 338 Lapua case necked down to 7mm and getting around 3500 fps with high bc bullets and it is posted on this website.A search might turn it up.
Lynn
 
I'm currently having very solid results from the 338L improved to minimum body taper and 35degree shoulder. It does 2900 with the 300's with a 28" barrel and so far two barrels meet my 1/4 moa AGG requirement. It'll take 30-31" to make 3000 safely IMO. I don't like the standard 338 rd.

This is a really fine cartridge to base a 338 on, but IMO You need to spend some real time/money/resourcefulness on the stock/bedding/support. These things KICK, they hump up an ordinary setup like hitting a balloon wit' a baseball bat. This round, hopped up, makes normal stuff feel like you're shooting a flyrod.

I'm mod'ing an A5 McMillan as we speak, adding a top strap like a thumbhole because I think the stock is Tiggering on me, bad. (I know, the stocks suck for accuracy anyway, but I've got three of them setting here and have learned how to bed them...)

But, given a true BR treatment (scaled up!) the case is capable of wonderful accuracy and good velocity. I've bedded a couple into my old red mule, original McMillan BR with the long flutes that's been chopped and filled and abused beyond recognition, it'll handle the recoil (now) and it turns in solid groups. I'm building an adjustment for the buttstock rail because I'm kinda' half convinced the cartridge needs to be pre-biased like a race car. It is my opinion that these setups MUST be indexed, possibly bedding biased for torque and preferably braked. But it must be noted that the brake does absolutely NOTHING during the humping up cycle....... the bullet's gone before the brake catches the rifle. If the rifle goes sidewise you may not feel pummeled but groups will suffer.

Gonna' fit a couple more this week...... I was scared the first time I wrapped my finders on the hannle of my reamer but with preboring it hasn't been a problem.

I don't know what it would take to make a Chey-Tac or BMG based 1/4moa rifle but I'd want to start the process with ten grand in my pocket. And I don't know that I could spec it..... would certainly bend my peabrain :) :)

al
 
Alinwa
On the 50 BMG it helps if your last name is Rasmussen

Light Gun Single Target Group

Sheri Rasmussen
2.603” - 8/20/2006

Heavy Gun Single Target Group

Lee Rasmussen
1.955" - 7/4/2009

Unlimited Gun Single Target Group

Sheri Rasmussen
2.910" - 3/28/2010

Hunter - Prone

Sheri Rasmussen
2.992" - 6/01/2008

Single Target High Score

Lynn McMurdo
50-5x - 7/6/2002
Lee Rasmussen
50-5x - 8/18/2007
Bryan McCann
50-5x - 10/15/2005
Sheri Rasmussen
50-5x - 6/01/2008

Six Target Agg

Mark Avakian
5.823" - 7/4/2009
Lee Rasmussen
6.396" - 7/4/2009
Lee Rasmussen
5.417'' - 8/16//2009
Lee Rasmussen
7.406" - 7/5/2007

Six Target Total Score

Lee Rasmussen
297-12x - 12/30/2007
Lee Rasmussen
298-19x - 7/4/2009
Lee Rasmussen
297-13x - 8/16/2009
Lee Rasmussen
297-13x - 7/5/2007

Two Gun Record
Two Gun Agg Score

Lee Rasmussen
7.672 - 7/08/2007

"Ironman" Four Gun Record
Four Gun Agg Score

Lee Rasmussen
8.736 - 7/08/2007
Lynn
 

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Lynn I agree with what you say about the PPC being quick but we are talking heavy for caliber bullets in the 338 in order to get the long range wind bucking properties needed. The PPC guys (which I have one and love it for what it is inteneded for) are useing 62-68 grain bullets. Typically a heavy for caliber bulit is in the 95+ range for a 6mm. I am not trying to be a smart a@# or anything but as I said before apples to apples comparision it just does not work. I do see that I did not put that the heavy bullets in a PPC are slow and did not state my thoughts as well as I could have. I hope you do not take this wrong because I have learned from your posts on here and truly respect your oppinion. We might just disagree a bit on this which is fine and I hope you understand my intent is not to hurt any feelings or upset anyone. Thanks guys for the friendly debate and hope to see all of you at a match in the future.
 
Thanx Lynn, that's near on 1/2moa aggs @1K....... almost makes me wanna' change my name!

al
 
I did not put that the heavy bullets in a PPC are slow and did not state my thoughts as well as I could have.
Click to expand...

Actually, Roger Haney got an 8-twist barrel & chambered up a PPC on it. He was getting around 2900 fps with 105s . . . Not giving up much to the 6BR.

Regardless of the math, and I can run it about as well as the rest of you, for long range, high scores seem to come more easily with high BC bullets, small groups with very good bullets. Can you get both in one bullet? I suppose, but it ain't easy. Shooting a target that "wins" for both group and score isn't rare, but it isn't common, either. (Note: I don't take 600 yards as "long range.")
 
Citabria
I ordered up a Stiller Tac 408 yesterday so a 338/408 is on its way.In talking with several guys owning them 3300 fps is the norm with 300 Sierras and a poster on 6mmbr.com is getting 3592 using aluminum tipped bullets and US869 powder in a 32 inch Lawton barrel with a 338 SnipeTac.If you do a search for 338snipetach it will get you a video and bunch of info.

Johnson Gunsmithing
No worries mate as we are just discussing rifles.Lots of opinions and nothing makes my opinion more valid than anybody elses.
Lynn
 
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