Yeah, I know I'm crazy, but this is the right forum. Back when score hadn't settled quite so much into .30BR versus 6PPC, people tried a host of things. Anyone try a .338 Whisper? We've got some almost-match-grade bullets now... A 300 grain Berger hybrid at 1,050 fps wouldn't give up much while poking that large hole...
.338 Whisper?
- Thread starter Charles E
- Start date
Bob Kingsbury
New member
just wondering if your going to have a shoulder to H.S. on
Bob, I already shoot a .338 -- on the full .404 case -- in 1,000 yard BR. On a good day, when I win both relays & get in the shootoffs, that's 20 rounds plus sighters. 'Course it's a 17-pound rifle with a brake, but the Whisper doesn't burn 80 grains of powder, either. You absolutely can't shoot quite so fast, and free-recoil isn't a terribly good idea...
Bob Kingsbury
New member
charles, I was referring to the whisper parent case, that being the 221 fireball. The forward body dimension would be very
close to a 338 bullet plus 2x neck thickness. Not much to headspace on. I'm not worried about " your" shoulder
close to a 338 bullet plus 2x neck thickness. Not much to headspace on. I'm not worried about " your" shoulder
Ah. There were (are) two .338 Whispers. The one I'm thinking of is on the 7mm BR case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Whisper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Whisper
Bob Kingsbury
New member
Who would have guessed
jackie schmidt
New member
If you can get it to shoot consistant .300 groups, you can probably have a good time.
But I seriously doubt you will accomplish that. The only way to find out is to build one. Good Luck............jackie
But I seriously doubt you will accomplish that. The only way to find out is to build one. Good Luck............jackie
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Now you tell me. I just ordered a reamer for the 458 SOCOM for score. I already have some brass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.458_SOCOM
Aw, Jerry, you're funnin' me.
Jackie hit the nail on the head. Shooting the 300 Berger subsonic, I get the same wind drift as with a PPC. (Unless I entered the numbers wrong. Again.) That takes it down to the size of the hole versus the grouping ability. We've been getting some awfully impressive groups at 1K with those bullets, but whether or not that translates to .25 at 100 yards is another question. .3 doesn't give you any advantage.
Oddly enough, the real kicker is to stabilize that bullet at 1,050 fps, you need an 8-twist barrel. The torque may be the killer, even if the group size could be brought in line.
Jackie hit the nail on the head. Shooting the 300 Berger subsonic, I get the same wind drift as with a PPC. (Unless I entered the numbers wrong. Again.) That takes it down to the size of the hole versus the grouping ability. We've been getting some awfully impressive groups at 1K with those bullets, but whether or not that translates to .25 at 100 yards is another question. .3 doesn't give you any advantage.
Oddly enough, the real kicker is to stabilize that bullet at 1,050 fps, you need an 8-twist barrel. The torque may be the killer, even if the group size could be brought in line.
M
mike in co
Guest
P
Peter
Guest
6.5 twist.... Groups surprisingly well, . torque is an issue. I have one in .375 that might do even better.
Shame on SSK Industries.
Couple little points:
(1) there is no caliber restriction in short-range IBS score shooting -- except having a hole in the barrel small enough to work within the barrel taper requirement, I suppose.
(2) I checked the JBM data again. A few interesting tidbits:
At 100 yards, with a MV of 1080 fps, remaining velocity is 1022 fps -- it loses a whopping 28 fps. Wind drift in a 10-mph wind is 0.6 inches. (In other words, you could ignore a wind change of 3mph and still nick the X.)
At 200 yards, velocity loss is 52 fps -- down to 998. Wind drift is 2.6 inches.
* * *
Turns out the ballistic coefficient of that bullet, about .815 at 2,800 fps, is close to .900 subsonic. Recoil in a 13.5 HV rifle should be about the same as a 10.5 Hunter rifle with 150-grain .30-caliber bullets.
* * *
What makes this intriguing is the potential of that Berger bullet. I don't shoot 5-shot 100-yard groups for load long-range development, just 3-shot. With the better loads in my 1K LG, those are well under .3 inches.
The last half of last year, when I started shooting the .338, it was fairly common for me to get 6-inch groups at 1,000 yards, and I'm still working on the load. Scott Fletcher shot a 4.2-in 10 shot group at 1,000 yards, though obviously, that's just one. The bullets are new to us, we don't have a sense of just how good/bad they are yet.
But it all comes down to what Jackie said -- how well will it group? And no way to know unless someone's already built one.
(1) there is no caliber restriction in short-range IBS score shooting -- except having a hole in the barrel small enough to work within the barrel taper requirement, I suppose.
(2) I checked the JBM data again. A few interesting tidbits:
At 100 yards, with a MV of 1080 fps, remaining velocity is 1022 fps -- it loses a whopping 28 fps. Wind drift in a 10-mph wind is 0.6 inches. (In other words, you could ignore a wind change of 3mph and still nick the X.)
At 200 yards, velocity loss is 52 fps -- down to 998. Wind drift is 2.6 inches.
* * *
Turns out the ballistic coefficient of that bullet, about .815 at 2,800 fps, is close to .900 subsonic. Recoil in a 13.5 HV rifle should be about the same as a 10.5 Hunter rifle with 150-grain .30-caliber bullets.
* * *
What makes this intriguing is the potential of that Berger bullet. I don't shoot 5-shot 100-yard groups for load long-range development, just 3-shot. With the better loads in my 1K LG, those are well under .3 inches.
The last half of last year, when I started shooting the .338, it was fairly common for me to get 6-inch groups at 1,000 yards, and I'm still working on the load. Scott Fletcher shot a 4.2-in 10 shot group at 1,000 yards, though obviously, that's just one. The bullets are new to us, we don't have a sense of just how good/bad they are yet.
But it all comes down to what Jackie said -- how well will it group? And no way to know unless someone's already built one.
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M
mks
Guest
How about 510 Whisper? A 750 grain bullet, BC of 1.05 running subsonic has less recoil energy than a 30BR and 1/3 the wind drift. Trouble is, it has ten times more vertical induced by muzzle velocity variations. Yet, if ES could be controlled, it could be the next big (pun intended
) thing.
Cheers,
Keith
) thing.Cheers,
Keith
G
Greg Culpepper
Guest
How about 510 Whisper? A 750 grain bullet, BC of 1.05 running subsonic has less recoil energy than a 30BR and 1/3 the wind drift. Trouble is, it has ten times more vertical induced by muzzle velocity variations. Yet, if ES could be controlled, it could be the next big (pun intended
Cheers,
Keith
Keith,
Don't worry about ES, tune it out with the Flex-O-Matic Hinge in the Middle Magic Compensating Equalizer Stock (tm) that I suggested to you a while back. If ever there is going to be an application for a flexible flyer this is it. Load it really slow and those long a$$ 50's will be coming through the target like Death From Above and leave holes three calibers tall. ES? Problem solved! Use 348 Winchester brass. You're going to need a rim to headspace. Otherwise you're going to work off the mouth of the case like an ACP and need to trim to 0.0005" for every firing.
I'll be available for consultation. This might be fun. I'll watch from over here.
It could work.......maybe. Keep me informed as to your progress.
Greg
Well, with the price of those bullets, if you could afford to shoot it for a year's worth of IBS score competition, you cold also probably afford to hire an engineering team to solve that problem...How about 510 Whisper? A 750 grain bullet, BC of 1.05 running subsonic has less recoil energy than a 30BR and 1/3 the wind drift. Trouble is, it has ten times more vertical induced by muzzle velocity variations. Yet, if ES could be controlled, it could be the next big (pun intended
Cheers,
Keith
The .300 grain/.338 Bergers are $0.60 each, and like all copper thingies, probably going up in price.
M
mks
Guest
You're right. Because bullet exit time is more like a rimfire, tuning with the barrel would be in the messy muzzle motion after the first peak. More complicated, but in principle, still doable. Could be just the right application for tuning with the stock, which could maybe be designed to have its first peak of motion occur as the bullet is exiting.
The 510 Whisper uses 338 Lapua cases, but I like the 348 Win idea. An old-fashioned cartridge like Turner's 30-30.
G
Greg Culpepper
Guest
Keith,The 510 Whisper uses 338 Lapua cases, but I like the 348 Win idea. An old-fashioned cartridge like Turner's 30-30.
Exactly, my inspiration came from Michael. Shall we call it the 500 Wooper or the 500 Wopper? When you're rich and famous I'll claim the whole thing was my idea. Go get um!
Greg
G
Greg Culpepper
Guest
Keith,
I've got a Merrill with a 10", 10 twist 32-20 barrel and a .308 bore. I've always shot 110 grain Sierra HP's in it ahead of 296. Kind of like a scaled down 357 mag. You've got Quickload, don't you? Give me something for 175 and 210 SMK's Loaded length looks like 2.00" and 2.20" with my throat. We can call this one the Peeper.
Thanks
Greg
I've got a Merrill with a 10", 10 twist 32-20 barrel and a .308 bore. I've always shot 110 grain Sierra HP's in it ahead of 296. Kind of like a scaled down 357 mag. You've got Quickload, don't you? Give me something for 175 and 210 SMK's Loaded length looks like 2.00" and 2.20" with my throat. We can call this one the Peeper.
Thanks
Greg
M
mks
Guest
Yeah, 750 gr 0.510 Amaxes list at over $3 each. That's $300-400 per match, just for bullets. But how bad do you want to win, say, the Nationals? That's about the cost of your motel for several nights, so the bullets significantly raise expenses. Nascar used to be souped up stock cars, now they are million dollar investments. How fast do you want to go?
If someone started winning consistently with these big bullets, I could see a groundswell for a new rule to limit score to 30 caliber. I could see that happening before caliber neutral scoring.