30BR Powders Tested

M

mturner

Member
I just got done with some velocity testing of 6 different powders that can be used in the 30BR. All testing was done in a .150 short 30-30, which duplicates the capacity of the 30BR. All testing was done with my own 7 ogive 115gr. bullets. Barrel length is 22". Each charge was weighed to 1/100 of a grain. Only one shot was fired with each load. There is no reason to run a 3 to 5 shot average when ES is in the 5 fps. range. If anyone cares to know the powder lot for any powder tested, just ask. What really surprised me was how close LT30, N130, N200, and RE7 were. These four powders were about as close as could be expected for the same powder using different lots. All velocities were recorded using a Labradar. Your results may vary, but this gives you a good idea of what to expect from 6 different powders. Using LT32, you can just get there. I might could have gone up a little hotter, but running out of room.

H4198

34.0 - 3015
35.0 - 3081

N130

35.0 - 3027
36.0 - 3094

Norma 200

35.0 - 3014
36.0 - 3071

LT30

35.0 - 3026
36.0 - 3093

LT32

36.0 - 2961
37.0 - 3024

RE7

35.0 - 3019
36.0 - 3088

Notice how LT30 was only 1 fps slower than N130 at both charge weights. The two powders are virtually identical.


Michael
 
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Thanks Michael.

Through the years, I have tried most of the powders you listed, I still have 16 pounds of the Norma 200, and 8 pounds of the LT-30.

As of yet, I have still not found any that Agg as well as the H4198.

But here is an interesting story of recent.

I have been shooting Hogon lot number 80914094757 for the past five years. Just after the Nationals, I was out. So I switched over to my new lot of 81116155460.

I went to the last Lake Charles Match with my standard 34.8 grn load, which is a proven winner at about 3030 fps.I sensed the Rifle was a tad ragged, but by luck of circumstances, I was able to shoot clean at 200 and won the 200 and the Grand.

The next week end, Ed and I were at Tomball just fooling around, and I noticed the Rifle was not really grouping that well. .250+.

A fellow shooter had a chronograph set up, so I put a couple of rounds down, and to my surprise, the velocity was an average 3130 for three shots.

I dug out my own Chronograph to verify, and sure enough, velocity was way too high. I was also staring to get a minor "click" at the top of extraction, something I never get with my 30BR.

So, I dropped the load to where it was averaging around 3020 again, (a full .8 grn), and the Rifle came back to life.

Even different lots of the same powder can vary enough to change the entire load characteristics of a proven combo.

Her is a pic of the old lot, and the new lot. I bought the new lot about a year and a half ago.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19945&stc=1&d=1504271245
 

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This is very helpful Michael. I'm just starting to work with my .30 Stingray for score (basically a 40 degree .30 Major, or a .30 Grinch with the shoulder moved forward 0.035"). Anyways, it comes within 3/4 grains of a .30 BR. I'll use your data, backing off a full grain for both low and top end. I already have LT-30, LT-32, H4198, and RE7 on hand.

Thanks again,

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
jackie schmidt said:
Thanks Michael.

Through the years, I have tried most of the powders you listed, I still have 16 pounds of the Norma 200, and 8 pounds of the LT-30.

As of yet, I have still not found any that Agg as well as the H4198.

But here is an interesting story of recent.

I have been shooting Hogon lot number 80914094757 for the past five years. Just after the Nationals, I was out. So I switched over to my new lot of 81116155460.

I went to the last Lake Charles Match with my standard 34.8 grn load, which is a proven winner at about 3030 fps.I sensed the Rifle was a tad ragged, but by luck of circumstances, I was able to shoot clean at 200 and won the 200 and the Grand.

The next week end, Ed and I were at Tomball just fooling around, and I noticed the Rifle was not really grouping that well. .250+.

A fellow shooter had a chronograph set up, so I put a couple of rounds down, and to my surprise, the velocity was an average 3130 for three shots.

I dug out my own Chronograph to verify, and sure enough, velocity was way too high. I was also staring to get a minor "click" at the top of extraction, something I never get with my 30BR.

So, I dropped the load to where it was averaging around 3020 again, (a full .8 grn), and the Rifle came back to life.

Even different lots of the same powder can vary enough to change the entire load characteristics of a proven combo.

Her is a pic of the old lot, and the new lot. I bought the new lot about a year and a half ago.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19945&stc=1&d=1504271245
Click to expand...

Jackie,

That is really wild to see such a huge increase in velocity. While it threw your load out of tune, it looks like your newer lot of H4198 could be a more desired burn rate, as most shooters tend to say H4198 is a little on the slow side for the 30BR. It seems that my lot is closer to your original lot, maybe a tad slower, but you may be using 112gr. bullets. Either way, my testing seems to be in the ball park of the normally achieved velocities of the 30BR.

Lee,

Glad to know that this test is helpful. Remember that if your capacity is less than the 30BR, you may need some N120. While the H4198 developed the most velocity with the lowest charge weight, it is not necessarily the most dense powder. While all velocity test I ran were getting close to the maximum the case would hold, none of the above testing was done to see which powder was capable of producing the highest velocity with the case filled to the absolute max.

As Jackie has mentioned here, and in the past, H4198 is the go to powder in the 30BR. This is based on agging capability, and availability. A few have said that N130 is just as good, but still shoot H4198 instead, because of the N130 only being sold in 1 pound containers.

Vihtavuori has really missed the boat with N130. The popularity of the 30BR has continued to increase over the last few years. Removing the case capacity rule in hunter class benchrest has further increased it's popularity. While Vihtavuori has refused to start offering N130 in 8 pound jugs, Accurate was working on a 30BR powder (LT30) solution that is for the most part identical in burn rate to N130. When the N130 was available in 8 pound jugs, it could also be mixed with N133 to make a great 6PPC powder for those who like mixing powders.

Michael
 
Lee

I have always liked the way you name your wildcats. The 30 Stingray sounds so much cooler than 30 Grinch, or 30 major. Some time back, I chambered up a 6.8 SPC necked down to 6mm with a 30 degree shoulder. Capacity was somewhere between a 6PPC, and a 6BR. It could push a 70gr bullet at 3500 fps. I asked my daughter Darci to help me come up with a name for it. I told her that this is a wildcat, and could use a name that had something to do with speed. She named it the 6mm Velocicat. Not sure if the name Velocicat has been used before or not.

Michael
 
Thanks Michael. I must not have had enough coffee in me when posting the morning. I just re-tested the .30 Stingray against a .30 BR on capacity. The Stingray is 0.2 - 0.3 grs less on volume (not sure where I pulled 3/4 grs from). H4198 or LT-30 should work fine.

A little story around my wildcat's name. I had drawn up the reamer specs but didn't know what to call it. That same day, my dad was over working his '63 Corvette (kept in my spare garage bay). We kicked around ideas and couldn't come up with anything slick. Then I looked at the car's rear badge and the .30 Stingray was born.



I went this route because my bolt face won't take a BR head. And instead of rebating the rims, I used Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass necked up. I've heard so many good things about the .30 Major, I was eager to try it. The only changes are the sharper shoulder and datum moved ahead 0.035". Minor alterations, but they put me a hair closer to .30 BR capacity.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
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Lee Martin said:
Thanks Michael. I must not have had enough coffee in me when posting the morning. I just re-tested the .30 Stingray against a .30 BR on capacity. The Stingray is 0.2 - 0.3 grs less on volume (not sure where I pulled 3/4 grs from). H4198 or LT-30 should work fine.
-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Click to expand...


Yes, you should be in real good shape. Notice that all loads listed hit the proper velocity at the bottom load tested, except for LT32, which hit the accuracy node at the top listed load.

Michael
 
jackie

I just checked, and I have 16 lbs of the same newer lot # 81116155460 that you tested at 100 fps faster. That lot # is dated 11-16-15. The stuff I tested was lot # 81108064380 that is dated 11-08-06, or 9 years older. The lot of powder you just ran out of lot # 80914094757 is dated 09-14-09. I also have another lot # 80820084639 dated 08-20-08. If I get a chance, I may test the newer lot.

Michael
 
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Thank you for the very useful info, Michael. :cool:

I'll add H-322 to the mix: though it's heavier and slower - with it, I shoot 37.2 gr. (same powder measure setting as 34.8 Gr. of H-4198), and get about 2950 FPS, as opposed to 3040 FPS or, so. In all of my searching, H-4198 remains the best Agging of them all, with H-322 close behind. RG
 
R.G. Robinett said:
Thank you for the very useful info, Michael. :cool:

I'll add H-322 to the mix: though it's heavier and slower - with it, I shoot 37.2 gr. (same powder measure setting as 34.8 Gr. of H-4198), and get about 2950 FPS, as opposed to 3040 FPS or, so. In all of my searching, H-4198 remains the best Agging of them all, with H-322 close behind. RG
Click to expand...

With my lot, I got 2987 fps at 38.0 gr. of H322 in the same test rifle listed above. More velocity would have been realized with the 7 ogive bullet. The 2987 fps was realized with an 8 ogive bullet. I loose a lot of velocity going from a 7 ogive all the way to a 9 ogive. They just don't seat in the case as deep. I have to go up a grain in powder charge to get up to the same velocity.

I may retest H322 and the hotter lot of H4198 that Jackie spoke of. That would allow me to run the test with the exact same bullet and seating depth. Also, my older published data was not tested using the Labradar.

Michael
 
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New Test

mturner said:
I may retest H322 and the hotter lot of H4198 that Jackie spoke of. That would allow me to run the test with the exact same bullet and seating depth. Also, my older published data was not tested using the Labradar.

Michael
Click to expand...

Jackie,

My test on the hotter lot of H4198 you mentioned above delivered 3091 fps at 34.0 gr. compared to the older lot I tested at 3015 fps.



Robinett,

My test using H322 with the same 115 gr. 7 ogive bullet used for all above testing developed 3013 fps. at 38.0 gr. Because bullet choice can make a considerable difference in velocity, I have always done the majority of my testing with a 115 gr. bullet since it is in the middle of the 112 gr and 118 gr. bullet. I also do most testing with 7 or 8 ogive bullets to give results that are more similar to what others should be seeing. I mainly shoot my 9 ogive bullets, but I have to put more powder behind them to get the velocity back up to the same level as my 7 ogive bullets.


Michael
 
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I noticed the change when I went from 2009 Hodgdon 4198 to 2012 Hodgdon 4198 back in 2012 or 2013. The 2012 lot was denser by about 0.4 grains with the same measure setting and by weight I had to drop the charge back 0.5 grains to get back to the speed of the 2009 lot. Since then the variation has remained approximately the same varying less than 5-7 fps
with lots of 2013, 2014, and 2015, which I believe is within the margin of error on my chrono.
 
GerryM said:
Did any one try 1680 ball in their 30 BR?
Click to expand...

I have back in my 1st season which was 2013. Tried 34.4 with a 116 Euber, avg velocity was 3126, never did group real well. Even shot 34.4 of the old Winchester 680, 3262 avg, loosened up the primer pockets real quick., but it grouped fairly well.
 
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Jim Pag said:
I have back in my 1st season which was 2013. Tried 34.4 with a 116 Euber, avg velocity was 3126, never did group real well. Even shot 34.4 of the old Winchester 680, 3262 avg, loosened up the primer pockets real quick., but it grouped fairly well.
Click to expand...

Robinett has also spoke of using 1680 in the past. Seems like it agged around .3". It looks like WW680 is no longer available. I have 24# of H116, which is similar to the other two. I have never tried it in anything other than 444 Marlin and the 45-70. It produced incredible velocities in the 444 with the 240gr bullet clocking 2650 fps in a 22" barreled Marlin levergun.

I do find it interesting however that the full length 30-30 will exceed the 3262 fps load with a 116 gr bullet without loosening the primer.

Michael
 
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