220 Russian to 6mm PPC turned neck

R

Richinpa

Guest
How should I expand the necks on these cases so I can turn them? Can I use my 6mm ppc neck die without a bushing ? Thanks Rich.
 
Most Neck Dies that use a bushing don't have an expander ball. It sort of defeats the purpose.
So probably not.
What brand of die is it?

Ted
 
Expand necks

Sinclair makes an "expander" die that I find indispensable for prep of 220 Russian to 6 PPC. Contact them, they will point you to the tool.

Vita set brevis

jerrold
 
Rich ...

Richinpa said:
How should I expand the necks on these cases so I can turn them? Can I use my 6mm ppc neck die without a bushing ? Thanks Rich.
Click to expand...

The vast majority of 6ppc shooters full length size with bushings every time they reload. K&M makes a fine Expand Iron that matches up nicely with their turner. Regardless of which turner you use, buy that company's expander. It's important that they're compatible. Here's two good sources: http://www.kmshooting.com/index.php and http://precisionreloading.com/. I also recommend the K&M carbide cutting pilot.
 
Keep them the same

abintx said:
The vast majority of 6ppc shooters full length size with bushings every time they reload. K&M makes a fine Expand Iron that matches up nicely with their turner. Regardless of which turner you use, buy that company's expander. It's important that they're compatible. Here's two good sources: http://www.kmshooting.com/index.php and http://precisionreloading.com/. I also recommend the K&M carbide cutting pilot.
Click to expand...

I will second the idea of using the same make of expander and turner. I had a Sinclair expander for using on bent cases. When I bought a gun that needed the necks turned, I was told to get a K&M. so i did. When I tried to turn necks, the expander mandrel would not fit. Even though I was using a Sinclair 6mm expander, and a K&M 6mm turner mandrel, they were not compatible. I now use all K&M expander and turner and have never had an issue.
 
The K & M Expandiron usually works well with the Pumpkin turner, also. The Pumpkin has always been considered the best, but I would also consider Sinclair's newest equipment for expanding & turning. They have done a remarkable job of appraising the shortcomings of their equipment & re-designing to get rid of previous problems. I'm not saying K & M isn't good, it does a good job, too.
 
The dies are redding and the neck sizer does had an expander. The body sizer does not. Because of the tight neck chamber i can't fire form first. The key is I didn't know about the expander die with the neck turner. Thank for the help, Rich
 
When all is said and done

All the flash Harry stuff equates to zillch.If you have the patience to set-up the old Hart Sinclair or whatever they all do the same thing just some are easier to adjust and take care that the expander and turning mandrel are good MATES.The smoke & mirrors can really be confusing.All the best jim
 
case neck expanding

I've always used the K&M expander to open up Lapua 220 Russian to 6ppc and never had a problem. Next step is to outside neck turn with the K&M turning mandrel, and yes to the above, the Sinclairs & K&M are not compatable. Never liked the original, older Sinclair expanders, since they would pull out of the body die frequently and get stuck in the case mouth, since they were held in place with a very small socket head set screw. The K&M with the vertical screw solves that problem, although I see Sinclair has since re-designed theirs.
 
j mckinnie said:
All the flash Harry stuff equates to zillch.If you have the patience to set-up the old Hart Sinclair or whatever they all do the same thing just some are easier to adjust and take care that the expander and turning mandrel are good MATES.The smoke & mirrors can really be confusing.All the best jim
Click to expand...

I would respectfully disagree. There are at least three reasons the "flash Harry stuff" is meaningful. First, and most importantly, some of the turners do not have enough mass to dissipate the heat that is caused by the turning process. When the turner heats up the dimensions change and the resulting necks will vary. Variable neck thicknesses is not a good thing. Second, some of the turners have a better system for holding the brass than others. If the brass slips, moves, turns, etc. you will not have consistent results. Third, some of the turners are MUCH easier to adjust than others. The easier adjustment allows you to set up the turner to cut the necks to the exact thickness you desire whereas others require a substantial amount of trial and error. All the patience in the world won't stop you from saying "close enough" at some point - even if it is not exactly where you want it to be.

For the reasons and others not stated, I highly recommend that you buy two Pumpkin neck turners (one for the first cut and one for a final pass) and save yourself a lot of time and frustration.

Just my two cents. Ryan
 
As usual there are several ways to skin the cat. I have finally settled on this method. I use K&M because that was what was recommended to me. 1. Expand the 220 case up to 6mm on the expander, use a good lube. #2. Then neck turn to the dimension I have established that works in my chambers. (.268 neck) By trial and error I have established how far up the 220 case to cut to give just a slight cut into the finished case shoulder. #3. Load 220 case full of H4198 and a cheap 6mm bullet and fire in your chamber or a used barrel chambered the same. The case comes out almost completely formed. Just a tad of roundness at the shoulder. #4. Check for length, they are usually a bit short. #5. Finish the fireforming using this case during practice. Only takes one firing with normal load to finish the shoulder. The case is then ready for competition. I use the standard turner mandrel but do have on occasion a bit of heat build up. Since I am only taking about .0015 off the case I can do this with one quick turning. Normally this gives me a total neck clearance of .0015 to .002 on a loaded round. I do the turning/cutting on a table top drill press on the slowest speed, which is still too fast. Be sure and lube the cutter mandrel and inside of case neck good before turning. I also use a small visegrip to hold the K&M cutter. I have also found having a small container of ice water to rest the cutter in between cuts helps, as the cutter can get pretty warm at the speed I turn. Some fireform with a 224 bullet and then neck turn. Makes little if any difference. I am sure others have different methods.

Donald
 
If fast / cheap works for you, I do with with a 243 neck sizer die. Basically just lube the neck & run the expander through it. I don't have a tight neck so then I fire form, and turn the necks afterward.
 
Get a danged expander and be done with it.

I use the K&M ExpandIron and then two K&M turners. The first K&M is gross cut, the second is fine cut.

I've just purchased a Pumpkin. I've been told that they are so easy to adjust that you only need one. If it turns out to be a hassle, I'll buy another (or more).

Whichever turner you get, I'd get the carbide mandrel. It helps with the heat. If you're getting heat build up, it'll mess with your results.

Greg J.
 
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