2013 200-300 yrd score nationals

C

Charles E

curmudgeon
I see from the IBS website that the 2013 200/300 Score Nationals are tentatively scheduled to be held at Thurmont July 27-28.

Moreover, I see that both the Factory class and the AR class will be contested. I have a pretty good Savage, made up of all factory parts, but chambered in the wrong caliber. (It's a .223. Need a bigger hole.)

This led me to think, it could be a lot of fun to build a Factory Rifle, and this would be a good venue to put such a build to the test. Or maybe just get a model 12, either "F-class" or "Benchrest."

So what are the rules?
 
Never mind. I see the Factory and AR classes have been removed from the Nationals.

* * *

What I would have said:

I do have a question on "factory installed barrel." Does that mean I can use a take-off barrel, but have to return it to the factory to have it put on? I've only got two factory rifles, yet through an oddity, have several factory-made barrels for one of them. They're pure factory, but I put them on & take them off.

Actually, if those are the rules for the Nationals, several interesting (and expensive) alternatives pop up:

http://www.bleiker.ch/FreigewehrFreeRifle_1.html

Or, if you want a factory 6 PPC

http://www.gruenel.ch/sportwaffen/lw-iii/

in in addition to the obvious Savage Benchrest or F-class rifles,

Coopers

http://www.cooperfirearms.com/our-rifles/94-model-22

Maybe Kimbers, though you'd be limited to a .308 ibstead of a 6 BR

Probably prowling the European offerings for 300 meter rifles would yield more results, too.

Not to belittle anyone's efforts to date, but I wonder if some thought on who would show up in "Factory Class" might not prove profitable? Most accuracy-minded Factory shooters are willing to spend a little to customize their rifle, but haven't made the plunge to a full custom yet. A price limit on the rifle itself (list price) and a modest price limit on a modification or two (trigger?) (truing?) (stock?) (pick one?) might be more attractive.

I tried real hard to get some interest going in Factory Class at Rockingham. Failure two years ago -- I was the only guy who shot all four matches. It seems a bit better now, though the notion of shooting ALL the matches still seems a bit foreign to most...

It is hard to tell if people are shooting it year after year because they're cherry picking, or really interested. BTW, our "modified" class is a curious one, too. Essentially, the winners come from people shooting full-blown BR rifles, made up on a trued Remington or Savage action, & sometimes so heavy the rifle won't make VFS weight.
 
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Charles
Your little dissertation shows why factory class can be so difficult. A VFS or 6x rifle pretty much needs to be the right weight and meet certain measurement criteria which can easily be verified (granted frequently not done). A factory rifle is a whole different ball of wax, we have discussed this numerous times in IBS e-board meetings and it always ends up with those of us who have been match directors explaining the impossibility of enforcement of factory class rules to the idealist members of the board who see registering Factory class as a great idea.

BTW Factory class is still listed as I expect there to be space available.

Dick Grosbier
 
Dick,

See what happens when 65 isn't even a memory? When I went & looked just now, I looked at the 2012 schedule. You're right, it is still there for 2013.

* * *

I have a love-hate relationship with Factory Class. I do see the potential for drawing in new shooters, and also the potential for abuse. There is more than my little dissertation...Perhaps the best way to get a very good rifle is to buy 10, keep the best, and resell the others.

Setting a list price limit doesn't solve that issue. The other way is to limit participation by a time limit -- the rookie years come to mind. The problem with that is you'll not get experienced shooters in the Factory Class, and it's potential remains clouded. We tried that at 1K back in the late '90s -- a two year limit -- and participation dropped.

I know there is nothing new here. I do know that if you get 10-20 shooters to compete in a factory class, a very high percentage won't come back. Which leaves those that do. It has not been my experience that these new shooters feel the participation of an experience shooter is in any way "cheating."

While not perfect -- there is always whining, in all benchrest I've ever shhot, & probably in life generally -- a combination of the two tactics does seem to offer advantages to grow the sport.

Set the rifle price limit to (say) $300 more than the highest LIST price of of a regularly manufactured target rifle. A quick look has the Savage at $1,550, but whatever. That takes out the European match rifles, and probably the Cooper & other semi-customs. If not all of them, then you just live with it.

Set a modification limit of something, say $200, which can be spent on a trigger, an aftermarket stock, whatever the competitor wants. Again, list price. If it is so custom to not have a published list price, it's disallowed. Disallow custom barrels, period.

Secondly, have the rookie trophy as big as the "full" trophy. Probably something we should do in all the classes, BTW.

We're not tying to get the guy with the lever-action thuty-thuty, or even the Walmart Remington. We're trying to open the world up for the guys who are interested in accuracy for it's own sake, but haven't picked a venue, and can't afford to try them all.

Whats the point? I don't know if you could win an F-class match with the Savage Model 12 F Class, not my sport. I'd bet it would do alright, because I'm pretty sure it could compete in 1,000 Yard benchrest. It will beat some customs, but not those with the best barrels, unless by pure luck, it too has a special barrel, which is unlikely. It could not compete in short-range score against the full VFS rifles. You're probably going to lose 1-2 points even at 100 yards, never mind Xs. But in it's own class, with a number of people dropping 5-6 points, there is a feeling of success. I know, 'cause I've done it.

So the gain is, with that purchase, a guy can try out three sports, and see if there is an interest, and not do badly along the way. Trick is to limit the migraines of the match directors, and a price limit based on published prices seems effective. To those that whine, too bad, it's a rule, just like all the other silly rules in BR.

Edit:

On that last point, the second rifle I ever built was a Hunter for IBS competition. That was right at the time where IBS still required a Factory action -- a 10,000 unit minimum, wasn't it? So I went that way, even though NBRSA was just opening up Hunter to full customs. Didn't bother me -- and wound up only shooting club matches with it, but that was OK too. To be sanguine, we don't care about the complaints of people who are going to leave the sport; there will be many, and their complaints will vary. Not our problem.
 
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Snipers Hide has had a contest going for best 6 groups, 5 shots each. Was going ok until some new dude shot his savage with 6ppc bull barrel and blew everyone away with a .25 agg:cool:

Long time reader first time poster. Saw the challenge and had to jump in.
Still recovering from appendicitis operation (this Monday).
Shot today pretty fast - the sun was setting.

Rifle:
Savage 12LRPV
24" 6PPC+.030" Bull barrel 1:14
HS Stock
Sightron SIII 10-50x60

Average group: .252" (.2405 MOA)
Best group: .110"

Shot off "super-tactical" NC Star bipod - has no springs or lock on it - just a ball, so I really had to handle the rifle: and the groups show it frown

Load:
Norma brass
Tula Primers
65 Bergers
29.5 8208

Groups:
.270+.325+.240+.329+.239+.110=1.513/6=.252 avg

((((( 100 YARD !!! ))))) SNIPER'S HIDE BOLT-ACTION BEST AVERAGE (TOP TEN) (average# is what really counts!):
***#1 place: Squin, 28" KRIEGER #17HV / KMW STOCK IMB BIG HORN / 7MM RSAUM, (.3623" average), shot on (10/13/12), post on page#4***
#2 place: Ctsmith, 20" FLUTED BULL / GAP ROCK WITH REM700 ACTION / .308, (.398" average), shot on (10/06/12), post on page#2
#3 place: 6brshooter, 24" BULL / CUSTOM BOLT / .243, (.398" average), shot on (10/06/12), post on page#3
#4 place: Coleridge, 20" BRUX#3 / REM700 CUSTOM / 6BR, (.413" average), shot on (10/05/12), post on page#2
#5 place: RugerSlinger, 19" BARTLIEN / STILLER TAC30 MANNERS T5A / 260, (.473" average), shot on (10/18/12), post on page#4
#6 place: Josh Elam, 20" BULL / AIAE / .308, (.494" average), shot on (09/12/12), post on page#2
#7 place: wfjames22, 25" LIGHT BRUX / REMINGTON 700 MCMILLAN / 260 REM, (.513" average), shot on (10/27/12), post on page#5
#8 place: Maladat, 20" BRUX#4 SPORTER / APA CUSTOM / 6.5 CREED, (.566" average), shot on (10/10/12), post on page#3
#9 place: RyanMcIntyre, 20" CRMO TRI-FLUTED / REM 700 VTR / .223, (.609" average), shot on (10/16/12), post on page#4
#10 place: RyanMcIntyre, 20" CRMO VARMINT / REM 700 SPS / .308, (.645", average), shot on (10/16/12), post on page#4


((((( 100 YARD !!! ))))) GRAND PRIZE... This person shoots 3/8" (.375") @ 100yrds ALL DAY LONG board (started 10/02/12)!!!
- MoBoost, 24" 6PPC BULL / SAVAGE 12LRPV / .243, (.249", average), shot on (11/04/12), post on page#5

"shoulda left the benchrest out of the pic."
 
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