2011 NBRSA 600/1000 Nationals ??
- Thread starter dmoran65
- Start date
expiper
Broken down Plumber
april 20 and 21 for the 600yd nats then Arpil 22nd for a 1000 yd F-class event...then
april 23-24 for the 1000yd nats....at Sacremento....Roger
http://nbrsa.org/node/156
Chek it out...here....
april 23-24 for the 1000yd nats....at Sacremento....Roger
http://nbrsa.org/node/156
Chek it out...here....
expiper
Broken down Plumber
uhh ooo!!!! so you say R.S. is gona be there....looks like I mite as well go fishin..ahahhaahha....tell him I got my lil' ole' BR "sited in"....I doubt that bothers him much..hahahaha.......good....it looks like there is gona be som folks there to put the west coast boys in a bind...grin.....tell him hi....and good luk to both of you...Roger
C
carl hansen
Guest
Roger, R S has already contacted me regarding reservations info for the Wa- Or contingent. It certainly appears as though that the 6 dasher Guru will be there for the whole week.
Donovan
If you can possibly be here this will probaly be a very good match.
The club has said that they will draw benches out in the open this time.I believe when Richard shot his records he was on the far right end of the range.The rules from the nbrsa have not been changed so this is what the guys running the match are saying.I imagine this will be allowed to take place but don't count on it as following the rules is way down on the nbrsa list of things to do.
For prizes this year I heard a rumor that Lou Murdica is supplying them himself as none have been donated or solicitated by myself.
There might even be a match report this year in the nbrsa newsletter as none was published/printed for the nationals or whatever they are now calling last years match.
I also heard rumor that Joe Krupa will be taking over the Hall Of Masters so the points earned may actually get counted this year.
And if you show up we can meet and I'll buy you dinner as I plan on filming most of the event unless the nbrsa makes a new rule up saying that is no longer allowed.
Never heard back if my father is allowed to shoot the match so he is planning on attending unless Dennis Thornbury writes him a letter like the one I received.
I guess I am banned from shooting nbrsa matches unless I petition to be reinstated.I never read or received anything saying I was ever ousted from the nbrsa only that I can't renew my membership without petitioning the board and have good character.
I guess complaining about the outright cheating is not considered in good character?
Lynn
If you can possibly be here this will probaly be a very good match.
The club has said that they will draw benches out in the open this time.I believe when Richard shot his records he was on the far right end of the range.The rules from the nbrsa have not been changed so this is what the guys running the match are saying.I imagine this will be allowed to take place but don't count on it as following the rules is way down on the nbrsa list of things to do.
For prizes this year I heard a rumor that Lou Murdica is supplying them himself as none have been donated or solicitated by myself.
There might even be a match report this year in the nbrsa newsletter as none was published/printed for the nationals or whatever they are now calling last years match.
I also heard rumor that Joe Krupa will be taking over the Hall Of Masters so the points earned may actually get counted this year.
And if you show up we can meet and I'll buy you dinner as I plan on filming most of the event unless the nbrsa makes a new rule up saying that is no longer allowed.
Never heard back if my father is allowed to shoot the match so he is planning on attending unless Dennis Thornbury writes him a letter like the one I received.
I guess I am banned from shooting nbrsa matches unless I petition to be reinstated.I never read or received anything saying I was ever ousted from the nbrsa only that I can't renew my membership without petitioning the board and have good character.
I guess complaining about the outright cheating is not considered in good character?
Lynn
expiper
Broken down Plumber
Hey hi Carl..glad to hear your gona make it ...your guys from up north can carry the banner for the west coast .....It looks like there is gona be a wave from the EAST hahaha.....glad you hav wintered well and ready for spring and another shooting season....this combined 600/1000yd event is a good idea,shure helps with the travel expense.....Lynn it is good to see the new improved bench rotation and selection process (Thank YOU )....Roger
M
mike in co
Guest
well i will miss it...the rifle will be done..but i am having catarac surgery on apr 21.....
mike in co
mike in co
Roger
The Sacramento Club is trying to do most things right but they are hampered by some of the rules.
The few members that are left need to get a few new rules voted into place and the drawing of benches needs to be out in the open and it needs to be voted in.This would eliminate guys coming in from 15 states away always shooting on the right hand side of the range while the dog and pony show always sit on the first benches.It doesn't matter if the benches are all equal and all have the same wind it looks bad and needs fixing.
Maybe somebody else can explain the word perception to those in charge.
The members remaining need to vote yes or no on the bench rotation issue so its the shooters choice and not the Good Ole Boys choice as we already no they ignore anything they want at any time they want.
They also need to vote in some kind of rule on a start time being as close to 8AM or 8:15AM as is possible.Starting day one at 9:30 AM puts relay 1 as the only way you can win due to the wind.By keeping the times even you even out the playing field.
They also need to buy the match director/range officer or whatever they want to call him a set of balls so when he sees the cheaters cheating they are done.As safety trumps everything in this sport those refusing to pull there bolt should not only be DQ'ed they should be removed from the range for a given length of time.
The guys in charge at the top are definitely not doing what they are there for.If they don't like the rules leave and leave quickly.If the board of directors is in the good ole boys club and can't make a decision on there own they need to leave and leave quickly as they are hurting the organisation not helping it.
Taking months to resolve any issue is not only ridiculous it is childish and makes the nbrsa look stupid in the public eye.Anybody in charge who got there panties in a wad over the factual truth needs to be removed and replaced immediately as they are part of the problem and not the solution.Not contacting a shooter ever is ridiculous and a new rule needs to be put into place so a shooter ort group of shooters knows what is happening over something in dispute.
If the shortrange guys want to tolerate all that is taking place let them but leave the longrange game alone.
The three biggest dogs need to leave yesterday as they all lack good character which is a requirement for membership.That isn't a mad shooter talking that is a fact.The biggest dog doesn't follow the rules.The second dog cheats and it is well documented.The third dog ignores the rulebook when it is presented to him.All of these facts show they don't posess good character.
Lynn
The Sacramento Club is trying to do most things right but they are hampered by some of the rules.
The few members that are left need to get a few new rules voted into place and the drawing of benches needs to be out in the open and it needs to be voted in.This would eliminate guys coming in from 15 states away always shooting on the right hand side of the range while the dog and pony show always sit on the first benches.It doesn't matter if the benches are all equal and all have the same wind it looks bad and needs fixing.
Maybe somebody else can explain the word perception to those in charge.
The members remaining need to vote yes or no on the bench rotation issue so its the shooters choice and not the Good Ole Boys choice as we already no they ignore anything they want at any time they want.
They also need to vote in some kind of rule on a start time being as close to 8AM or 8:15AM as is possible.Starting day one at 9:30 AM puts relay 1 as the only way you can win due to the wind.By keeping the times even you even out the playing field.
They also need to buy the match director/range officer or whatever they want to call him a set of balls so when he sees the cheaters cheating they are done.As safety trumps everything in this sport those refusing to pull there bolt should not only be DQ'ed they should be removed from the range for a given length of time.
The guys in charge at the top are definitely not doing what they are there for.If they don't like the rules leave and leave quickly.If the board of directors is in the good ole boys club and can't make a decision on there own they need to leave and leave quickly as they are hurting the organisation not helping it.
Taking months to resolve any issue is not only ridiculous it is childish and makes the nbrsa look stupid in the public eye.Anybody in charge who got there panties in a wad over the factual truth needs to be removed and replaced immediately as they are part of the problem and not the solution.Not contacting a shooter ever is ridiculous and a new rule needs to be put into place so a shooter ort group of shooters knows what is happening over something in dispute.
If the shortrange guys want to tolerate all that is taking place let them but leave the longrange game alone.
The three biggest dogs need to leave yesterday as they all lack good character which is a requirement for membership.That isn't a mad shooter talking that is a fact.The biggest dog doesn't follow the rules.The second dog cheats and it is well documented.The third dog ignores the rulebook when it is presented to him.All of these facts show they don't posess good character.
Lynn
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Tom
I don't propose ever taking over the nbrsa.The nbrsa has a rulebook and it should either be followed or it should be gotten rid of entirely.If the 3 big dogs only want to follow the rules when it is in there best interest the nbrsa will continue losing clubs and members just as it is doing now.
I have never shot with you at Visalia but if I did would the benches be drawn according to the rules or would I see the vice president sitting next to the president on his right hand side at every match? If your not following the rules drop the rules as the perception is your favoring certain shooters and I have never even seen the range.Before we go any further would that be a true statement or am I lying about it? What have You Yourself done about it?
The public perception of benchrest is a bunch of grouchy cantancarass old butthead snobs who think they know it all.
The people in charge need to set the example and not be the problem that is killing benchrest.
Dennis Thornbury kicked me out and that in itself is against the rules.He cannot throw anybody out only the board of directors can and to do that they have to show prior problems and hear my half of the story none of which has ever taken place.Lou Murdica and Don's brother in-law Karl Hunstiger both posted I would never shoot nbrsa again.The nbrsa is a not for profit entity registered with the state of New York since around 1953 and operating inside of California.According to non-profit law you can kick somebody out for a year maximum after they have had there say and the Board Of Direcrtors has voted.
If I wanted to be a turd about this I would contact the attorney generals office and have them lose there non-profit status just for being so stupid in the first place and let them pay taxes on 2010 and 2011's revenue.Again they are not following there own rules.
Do you know why I was kicked out? I was kicked out for telling the undisputed truth about the 3 big dogs and how they wrecked the 2010 Nationals.
I am glad you are following my posts as it shows me the cell phone companies are doing well.Why don't you ask the Board of Directors or the 3 big dogs to point out any mistakes and prove me wrong on this forum for all to see.I eagerly await there response.
Lynn
I don't propose ever taking over the nbrsa.The nbrsa has a rulebook and it should either be followed or it should be gotten rid of entirely.If the 3 big dogs only want to follow the rules when it is in there best interest the nbrsa will continue losing clubs and members just as it is doing now.
I have never shot with you at Visalia but if I did would the benches be drawn according to the rules or would I see the vice president sitting next to the president on his right hand side at every match? If your not following the rules drop the rules as the perception is your favoring certain shooters and I have never even seen the range.Before we go any further would that be a true statement or am I lying about it? What have You Yourself done about it?
The public perception of benchrest is a bunch of grouchy cantancarass old butthead snobs who think they know it all.
The people in charge need to set the example and not be the problem that is killing benchrest.
Dennis Thornbury kicked me out and that in itself is against the rules.He cannot throw anybody out only the board of directors can and to do that they have to show prior problems and hear my half of the story none of which has ever taken place.Lou Murdica and Don's brother in-law Karl Hunstiger both posted I would never shoot nbrsa again.The nbrsa is a not for profit entity registered with the state of New York since around 1953 and operating inside of California.According to non-profit law you can kick somebody out for a year maximum after they have had there say and the Board Of Direcrtors has voted.
If I wanted to be a turd about this I would contact the attorney generals office and have them lose there non-profit status just for being so stupid in the first place and let them pay taxes on 2010 and 2011's revenue.Again they are not following there own rules.
Do you know why I was kicked out? I was kicked out for telling the undisputed truth about the 3 big dogs and how they wrecked the 2010 Nationals.
I am glad you are following my posts as it shows me the cell phone companies are doing well.Why don't you ask the Board of Directors or the 3 big dogs to point out any mistakes and prove me wrong on this forum for all to see.I eagerly await there response.
Lynn
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Lynn
Don't include me in your so called Bid Dog Pony show. I don't care how you feel on what was done or not done at the Natrionals, it was not completed and so for 2010 there was not a nationals. The only reason I have responded to you is I feel that you have HI JACKED several threads on BRC for your own agenda ( example this tread was asked: what are the dates and where will they be held ) you have done it again as you have done with several threads and turned it into your personal venue. Why don't you just start a thread Lynn's Agenda and leave the shooters on BRC that want to have their questions or input on shooting alone.
I understand YOU have an issue to grind and the way you can help your issue is to run the matches yourself and hold everyone to the rules you so vividly want to have.
Don't include me in your so called Bid Dog Pony show. I don't care how you feel on what was done or not done at the Natrionals, it was not completed and so for 2010 there was not a nationals. The only reason I have responded to you is I feel that you have HI JACKED several threads on BRC for your own agenda ( example this tread was asked: what are the dates and where will they be held ) you have done it again as you have done with several threads and turned it into your personal venue. Why don't you just start a thread Lynn's Agenda and leave the shooters on BRC that want to have their questions or input on shooting alone.
I understand YOU have an issue to grind and the way you can help your issue is to run the matches yourself and hold everyone to the rules you so vividly want to have.
M
mike in co
Guest
TOM, I THINK IT IS APROPRIATE FOR LYNN TO SPEAK UP, HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU SCHEDULED YOUR YEARS VACATION TIME, A SMALL STACK OF MONEY, MADE THE TRIP, and found out there was no national match, just a two day fun shoot....all because the officers of the organization chose to not follow the rules ??
i'm glad i'm having surgey that week..i dont have to think about it. ...and no i'm not a member today...( am in ibs) but if i drive over for the shoot of course i would join.
yes i agree with lynn...the board is wrong...the issue needs to be fixed,,,BEFORE THE MATCH.
mike in co
i'm glad i'm having surgey that week..i dont have to think about it. ...and no i'm not a member today...( am in ibs) but if i drive over for the shoot of course i would join.
yes i agree with lynn...the board is wrong...the issue needs to be fixed,,,BEFORE THE MATCH.
mike in co
J
Jefferson
Guest
and I will be the campaingn manager to hold and spend the funds, all kidding aside at the NBRSA nationals a few years back they made some silly statements at the annual meeting at the nationals and because of the uproar (in a nice way) at the meeting they got together that night and reversed their decision,
some of the "old" guard can be convinced to change but we must drive it for too many times I hear the "not on my watch" statement,
I cannot go into details as my relationsip with most of the current directors then may suffer, but I can try to change some minds at the major shoots I attend
go for it we need much change in that organization and some of us will express our views when we can and not just on the keyboard,
Jeff
some of the "old" guard can be convinced to change but we must drive it for too many times I hear the "not on my watch" statement,
I cannot go into details as my relationsip with most of the current directors then may suffer, but I can try to change some minds at the major shoots I attend
go for it we need much change in that organization and some of us will express our views when we can and not just on the keyboard,
Jeff
Tom Libby
If you come on the 600/1000 yard forum and want to take a shot at me that is perfectly fine.Don't cry and whine when I then point out what has happened under your nose at Visalia.I notice you like to pick sides but your posts never answer any of my questions.I already know why.
If you re-read my post I am making suggestions for what I consider to be important rule changes that are needed.
If the shooters at the Nationals vote those changes in it will help the nbrsa in my opinion.I am not voting but my father will be as Dennis and Lou haven't thrown him out yet that we are aware of.
As I have never been to Visalia and as I can't even find it on a map how do you suppose I know what I posted? Do you think nbrsa members might be writing me e-mails and telling me what they are seeing and don't like? Hint Hint wink wink.
I post it because many of the members are afraid of the same retaliation I have received from the Good Ole Boys Club.
Lynn
P.S. Anybody here can put me on there ignore list if they truly don't want to read my posts.
If you come on the 600/1000 yard forum and want to take a shot at me that is perfectly fine.Don't cry and whine when I then point out what has happened under your nose at Visalia.I notice you like to pick sides but your posts never answer any of my questions.I already know why.
If you re-read my post I am making suggestions for what I consider to be important rule changes that are needed.
If the shooters at the Nationals vote those changes in it will help the nbrsa in my opinion.I am not voting but my father will be as Dennis and Lou haven't thrown him out yet that we are aware of.
As I have never been to Visalia and as I can't even find it on a map how do you suppose I know what I posted? Do you think nbrsa members might be writing me e-mails and telling me what they are seeing and don't like? Hint Hint wink wink.
I post it because many of the members are afraid of the same retaliation I have received from the Good Ole Boys Club.
Lynn
P.S. Anybody here can put me on there ignore list if they truly don't want to read my posts.
Francis
I would never run for anything even remotely associated with the nbrsa.The three top dogs are destroying the organisations mission statement in my opinion.
To standardize on a national basis the entire Bench Rest Shooting program so that targets, ranges, scoring methods, records, and match procedure will be uniform and comparable
Anybody can screw up or make a mistake but to blatanly ignore the rulebook and then argue against it at a National Level Event ought to be grounds for swift and immediate removal.It not only shows bad character but it destroys the intent of why we have the organisation in the first place.
Lynn
I would never run for anything even remotely associated with the nbrsa.The three top dogs are destroying the organisations mission statement in my opinion.
To standardize on a national basis the entire Bench Rest Shooting program so that targets, ranges, scoring methods, records, and match procedure will be uniform and comparable
Anybody can screw up or make a mistake but to blatanly ignore the rulebook and then argue against it at a National Level Event ought to be grounds for swift and immediate removal.It not only shows bad character but it destroys the intent of why we have the organisation in the first place.
Lynn
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James
I talked to George Tompkins about what took place and why Colorado no longer shoots any nbrsa matches.It all boils down to the same old thing over and over again.They simply make up new rules on the spot or refuse to follow the rules already in the books and then complain that the shooters are not showing up and supporting the clubs.The Mission Statement means absolutely nothing anymore.
I don't have to ask you for the names on who wrecked colorado as its always the same names.
Tom Libby will now post.
Lynn
I talked to George Tompkins about what took place and why Colorado no longer shoots any nbrsa matches.It all boils down to the same old thing over and over again.They simply make up new rules on the spot or refuse to follow the rules already in the books and then complain that the shooters are not showing up and supporting the clubs.The Mission Statement means absolutely nothing anymore.
I don't have to ask you for the names on who wrecked colorado as its always the same names.
Tom Libby will now post.
Lynn
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D
Dog-duster
Guest
I took issue when at the shooter's meeting before the 08 1K Nate the VP said we'd be shooting under the new 6-10shots (crossfire) rule that could allow a less than ethical shooter a second bite at the apple if they felt like they missed the wind on a group. Our match director said we should follow the original rule as he hadn't been sent a rulebook containing the new rule in print. When the VP took issue with that notion someone asked him to at least explain the new rule to the shooters in attendance, he could not. This is not just a point blank shooter who decided to attend the Nats to check it out, he avidly shoots this discipline was at least at that time on the world record measuring committee. He should be intimately familiar with the rules and able to explain them at least in layman's terms as a representative of the organization's leadership. I personally heard him say to another shooter outside the motel that evening that we in CO play fast and loose with the rules. I personally feel it isn't right put a rule into effect when it has not been widely disseminated to the membership in print. Heck, I would have been ok if he could produce a rulebook that he had brought, but he didn't.
I also wonder what the idea is with "F-class bench match" at the nationals. F-class is its own discipline and so is 1K BR. Is the idea to draw F-class shooters to 1K BR? I have no problem with that but each has it's own rules and which are they shooting by? I don't shoot F-class but I'm pretty sure they have a heavier rifle weight limit. Are their rules specific enough for fitting the NBRSA's equipment rules? This all just seems so odd to me. Almost like adding score shooting to point blank group shooting?
Maybe I should have posted this in Lou Murdica's thread about the nats. If anyone thinks I am hijacking let me know and I will happily delete this post and post it there.
In CO we really liked the format of NBRSA but couldn't get past the rule changes on the fly by the current leadership for whatever their reasoning was. It just isn't right.
Lynn, I don't mind the idea of there being a unified 1K BR sanctioning body but I really don't ever see it happening as long as the formats and rules are as different as they currently are between the bodies. Each body's membership is so used the old ways they won't be willing to change even if you could put a hndred bucks in their pocket to feel better about the change. That's the hard part. There are things that I would have a hard time with if they were the way I had to shoot it but I suppose I could get over them if it meant a more lively sport and less infighting. If you can win the masses I think you'll have a revolution in long range BR. The other hard part is what to do about world records that are currently held. I think some record holders would have a hard time having their current record retired from a switch. They aren't easily earned. Just some thoughts that you'll have to hammer out to make it work.
Nate
I also wonder what the idea is with "F-class bench match" at the nationals. F-class is its own discipline and so is 1K BR. Is the idea to draw F-class shooters to 1K BR? I have no problem with that but each has it's own rules and which are they shooting by? I don't shoot F-class but I'm pretty sure they have a heavier rifle weight limit. Are their rules specific enough for fitting the NBRSA's equipment rules? This all just seems so odd to me. Almost like adding score shooting to point blank group shooting?
Maybe I should have posted this in Lou Murdica's thread about the nats. If anyone thinks I am hijacking let me know and I will happily delete this post and post it there.
In CO we really liked the format of NBRSA but couldn't get past the rule changes on the fly by the current leadership for whatever their reasoning was. It just isn't right.
Lynn, I don't mind the idea of there being a unified 1K BR sanctioning body but I really don't ever see it happening as long as the formats and rules are as different as they currently are between the bodies. Each body's membership is so used the old ways they won't be willing to change even if you could put a hndred bucks in their pocket to feel better about the change. That's the hard part. There are things that I would have a hard time with if they were the way I had to shoot it but I suppose I could get over them if it meant a more lively sport and less infighting. If you can win the masses I think you'll have a revolution in long range BR. The other hard part is what to do about world records that are currently held. I think some record holders would have a hard time having their current record retired from a switch. They aren't easily earned. Just some thoughts that you'll have to hammer out to make it work.
Nate
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